Orla
Well-Known Member
Why would I lose pressure at the cooker when its only -04C outside? The pressure is so low its not usable.
If I was using Butane I would undestand!!
If I was using Butane I would undestand!!
Low pressure from Propane?
- Thread starter Orla
- Start date
VicS
Well-Known Member
Bottle empty
Valve shut or other restriction
Regulator faulty
Butane not propane
Valve shut or other restriction
Regulator faulty
Butane not propane
sarabande
Well-Known Member
Try drizzling a bucket of hot water over the cylinder and see if that improves the pressure.
Otherwise it's back toVicS' check list.
Otherwise it's back toVicS' check list.
William_H
Well-Known Member
The boiling temp of Propane is above that of the ambient temp. Now I hope I have got my correct gasses and temps but essentially it is too cold for the propane. You could prove this by pouring hot water over the cylinder to warm it. Or emerse in hot water or just disconnect and take it into the cabin to warm up. Perhaps without gas you have no heating??
It is a common problem with hot air balloonists who keep the cylinders indoors until needed early on cold morning.
Basically if the gas won't boil cos too cold there is no pressure. Different gasses of course boil a different temps. olewill Typing while shirtless and after a swim around the boat in 30 degrees C.
Answer: migrate to southern hemisphere till May.
It is a common problem with hot air balloonists who keep the cylinders indoors until needed early on cold morning.
Basically if the gas won't boil cos too cold there is no pressure. Different gasses of course boil a different temps. olewill Typing while shirtless and after a swim around the boat in 30 degrees C.
Answer: migrate to southern hemisphere till May.
VicS
Well-Known Member
No Will youve got it wrong. BPt of <u>butane</u> is just below zero so no good below about 4 or 5 C.
Bpt of <u>propane</u> is minus God knows what. So is fine for normal low temps.
<span style="color:blue"> Bpt propane is -42C, but even I had to look it up!
God </span>
Bpt of <u>propane</u> is minus God knows what. So is fine for normal low temps.
<span style="color:blue"> Bpt propane is -42C, but even I had to look it up!
God </span>
sarabande
Well-Known Member
LordMac could have a proprietary gas bottle which contains a mix of propane and butane, and sold as "LPG" ?
Refueler
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
LordMac could have a proprietary gas bottle which contains a mix of propane and butane, and sold as "LPG" ?
[/ QUOTE ]
Sara - you probably the nearest to possible reason. A lot of so called Propane sold is a mix of Butane and Propane. We are the only LPG test facility in our region and we regularly load LPG vessels with blend LPG. It can range from as little as 5% Butane up to 60% ~.
The OP's problem at -4C is not uncommon and can be either the LPG mix or even the regulator itself is part frozen - I have that sometimes on my system. warm water ... NOT boiling hot - usually sorts it. Or if you can get a hair-dryer to it ... as water will freeze on bottle / regulator after.
My mobile at home - I have two sets of cylinders. Butane pure for summer and pure propane for winter. Even the pure propane sometimes gives trouble.
LordMac could have a proprietary gas bottle which contains a mix of propane and butane, and sold as "LPG" ?
[/ QUOTE ]
Sara - you probably the nearest to possible reason. A lot of so called Propane sold is a mix of Butane and Propane. We are the only LPG test facility in our region and we regularly load LPG vessels with blend LPG. It can range from as little as 5% Butane up to 60% ~.
The OP's problem at -4C is not uncommon and can be either the LPG mix or even the regulator itself is part frozen - I have that sometimes on my system. warm water ... NOT boiling hot - usually sorts it. Or if you can get a hair-dryer to it ... as water will freeze on bottle / regulator after.
My mobile at home - I have two sets of cylinders. Butane pure for summer and pure propane for winter. Even the pure propane sometimes gives trouble.
Orla
Well-Known Member
Thank you everyone for your info, I took the original bottle back and exchanged it thinking it was empty, it was'nt it was almost half full.
But I got a re-fill anyway, still the same problem.
Very interesting comment from sarabande, I assumed that when i bought the blue bottle that said butane on the side that was what i was getting, (which we use in summer)
And like wise when i bought a big orange cylinder with propane on the side that was what i was getting /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Why would they mix them?
My plan today is to try and insulate the bottle and hose up to the point they enter the boat and see if that helps
thanks again
But I got a re-fill anyway, still the same problem.
Very interesting comment from sarabande, I assumed that when i bought the blue bottle that said butane on the side that was what i was getting, (which we use in summer)
And like wise when i bought a big orange cylinder with propane on the side that was what i was getting /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Why would they mix them?
My plan today is to try and insulate the bottle and hose up to the point they enter the boat and see if that helps
thanks again
VicS
Well-Known Member
We've been over the composition of these gases before
IIRC commercial butane is pretty much pure butane
commercial propane can have a substantial %age of butane in it.
I think though that the sort of mixtures allowed as "propane" should be Ok at -4C
(Unfortunately I dont know what is allowed as "LPG")
Don't insulate the bottle that will make matters worse as it cools as the gas is drawn off.
IIRC commercial butane is pretty much pure butane
commercial propane can have a substantial %age of butane in it.
I think though that the sort of mixtures allowed as "propane" should be Ok at -4C
(Unfortunately I dont know what is allowed as "LPG")
Don't insulate the bottle that will make matters worse as it cools as the gas is drawn off.
Orla
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that VicS.
I attacked the regulator with my wifes hairdryer, (i knew there was a reason it was aboard) and all is back to normal for now.
I see these cylinders sitting outside remote cottages all over the highlands and they never seem to have any bother.
I'll maybe look into differant types of regulators.
I attacked the regulator with my wifes hairdryer, (i knew there was a reason it was aboard) and all is back to normal for now.
I see these cylinders sitting outside remote cottages all over the highlands and they never seem to have any bother.
I'll maybe look into differant types of regulators.
VicS
Well-Known Member
I had the regulator on the boat stick once. Its a bottle mounted (camping gas) one which I normally remove during the winter (and cap the the bottle). One year it refused to function in the spring. Fixed it by gently sucking on the outlet ..... off the bottle of course. Tended to do that as a matter of routine ever since.
misterg
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I attacked the regulator with my wifes hairdryer, (i knew there was a reason it was aboard) and all is back to normal for now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Regulator might have have water in it (on the outside of the diaphragm) - make sure that the little drain/breather is clear, and that the regulator is in the correct orientation to drain properly.
0.02p
Andy
I attacked the regulator with my wifes hairdryer, (i knew there was a reason it was aboard) and all is back to normal for now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Regulator might have have water in it (on the outside of the diaphragm) - make sure that the little drain/breather is clear, and that the regulator is in the correct orientation to drain properly.
0.02p
Andy
Orla
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your 0.02p worth.
Thats somthing else i didn't know.
The regulator is now in the correct orientation to drain properly.
Everything is now working as it should be.
Thats somthing else i didn't know.
The regulator is now in the correct orientation to drain properly.
Everything is now working as it should be.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
So I was half right ... it had to be either gas flow from bottle or through regulator.
It's common nowadays to have universal regulators - ones that cater for both Butane and Propane. We use them out here but IMHO are too much a compromise. They work fine in reasonable temps', but I've found that as temp goes down they give trouble. Better to have specific regulator for gas type - yes you can ignore blend.
Glad you're sorted ....
It's common nowadays to have universal regulators - ones that cater for both Butane and Propane. We use them out here but IMHO are too much a compromise. They work fine in reasonable temps', but I've found that as temp goes down they give trouble. Better to have specific regulator for gas type - yes you can ignore blend.
Glad you're sorted ....
Sandyman
Well-Known Member
Until I read this thread I wasn't aware that they mixed gases in Propane bottles. Maybe this explains why some last longer than others. I have storage for 2 in No 13Kg bottles. One in use & one as back up. We only use gas for cooking. I have known them to last as long as 3 months and as little as 6 weeks.
Is there not a law that states the minimum calorific quantity of a particular gas when it is sold ?? If not then there should be.
Is there not a law that states the minimum calorific quantity of a particular gas when it is sold ?? If not then there should be.
dmayes
Well-Known Member
One of the other responders stated that the bottle gets colder as the gas is drawn off. Propane should be OK at -4 but is that the air temp? or is that the temp of the bottle? If the bottle is in a closed container, as it should be, it may get far below the air temp as it will act like a freezer with the bottle cooling the air inside the compartment. It needs to absorb heat from the air in order to boil the liquid even if that is at -4.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Until I read this thread I wasn't aware that they mixed gases in Propane bottles. Maybe this explains why some last longer than others. I have storage for 2 in No 13Kg bottles. One in use & one as back up. We only use gas for cooking. I have known them to last as long as 3 months and as little as 6 weeks.
Is there not a law that states the minimum calorific quantity of a particular gas when it is sold ?? If not then there should be.
[/ QUOTE ]
each fuel such as this has a Fuel Quotient or Calorific Value as you put it. each product must reach a minimum spec to carry the name in retail.
So because I have informed that quite often LPG is blended doesn't mean to say you are getting less for your money. In fact Propane effectively gives less volume for volume than Butane ... so I would look at your usage before claiming the gas is at fault. Do you weight your new cylinders before and after use ? It's worth doing that .... On 25KG cylinders it's not unusual to find up to .5KG difference in weight ... They fill to the data tag fixed / stamped into cylinder.
Until I read this thread I wasn't aware that they mixed gases in Propane bottles. Maybe this explains why some last longer than others. I have storage for 2 in No 13Kg bottles. One in use & one as back up. We only use gas for cooking. I have known them to last as long as 3 months and as little as 6 weeks.
Is there not a law that states the minimum calorific quantity of a particular gas when it is sold ?? If not then there should be.
[/ QUOTE ]
each fuel such as this has a Fuel Quotient or Calorific Value as you put it. each product must reach a minimum spec to carry the name in retail.
So because I have informed that quite often LPG is blended doesn't mean to say you are getting less for your money. In fact Propane effectively gives less volume for volume than Butane ... so I would look at your usage before claiming the gas is at fault. Do you weight your new cylinders before and after use ? It's worth doing that .... On 25KG cylinders it's not unusual to find up to .5KG difference in weight ... They fill to the data tag fixed / stamped into cylinder.
William_H
Well-Known Member
Thanks Vic this thread shows my ignorance of the subject. Around here you get your bottle filled with LPG I assumed that was propane but probably P is for petroleum and you don't get a choice of gases. Cars and barbecues seem to run on it OK.
Meanwhile up north they export the LPG to the Japs and Chinese by the supertanker load but then that is liquefied natural gas. Presumably different.
I will stay ignorant and very clear of any temps near 0 (34 today) olewill
Meanwhile up north they export the LPG to the Japs and Chinese by the supertanker load but then that is liquefied natural gas. Presumably different.
I will stay ignorant and very clear of any temps near 0 (34 today) olewill
Refueler
Well-Known Member
I shall now retire and give VicS my login and access to all my files ... any questions please direct to him and I shall exit stage left.
Supertankers don't carry gas ... but the ships look big due to containement vessels have to be 'slung' inside the hull. The Ships are carrying Methane (LNG) in Liquid form.
Supertankers don't carry gas ... but the ships look big due to containement vessels have to be 'slung' inside the hull. The Ships are carrying Methane (LNG) in Liquid form.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Surely if you buy a bottle which is clearly marked "Propane", then that is what you should get. Propane is a gas C3H8, and isn't some hotch-potch dreamed up by blenders. Quite difficult for the average consumer to know what they are being given.
