Low friction rings for foresail sheets - any tips?

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GHA

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Boat gets more and more simple as time goes on :)

Tracks getting ditched, and the welder is on deck this week so sorting out connection points for the low friction rings. Seems pretty straight forward really, I'll have some half links of stainless chain welded about where the front of the track was and maybe a few inboard just in case. Then dyneema all round, there's already about 3m of dyneema spliced into the front of the jib sheets so should be slippy slippy.
Something like....
genoa-ar-2-17.webp

Sail Trim: Rigging Adjustable Sheet Leads


So anyone else went the same route? Work OK? Anything you'd do different next time?

tia :cool:
 
By all means give some type of vertical support to the sheet LFR: I tried the same solution for my inner stay jib sheets and at the first tack I almost destroyed the deck as the rings were shaken by the flapping sheet. On a steel deck a paint can may be enough though :)
In my case I'd have had to add vertical bungee or rope which would have made too difficult to move on deck, I eventually abandoned the idea. The Imoca have some of their sheets rigged that way through LFRs kept hanging above the outrigger by multiple trimming tackles in all directions, probably a couple of hundred meters of rope just for that :d
 
Roberto said:
By all means give some type of vertical support to the sheet LFR: I tried the same solution for my inner stay jib sheets and at the first tack I almost destroyed the deck as the rings were shaken by the flapping sheet. On a steel deck a paint can may be enough though :)
In my case I'd have had to add vertical bungee or rope which would have made too difficult to move on deck, I eventually abandoned the idea. The Imoca have some of their sheets rigged that way through LFRs kept hanging above the outrigger by multiple trimming tackles in all directions, probably a couple of hundred meters of rope just for that :d
Click to expand...
thanx, that's actually really helpful. Cruising cutter rigged boat, track was on the toe rail so sheets outside the guard rails, and yankee would get half pulled in to tack. Though rare event tacking over the past many years, seen as a failure in passage planning / weather forecasting ;)
Might zap a few more half links to the deck back towards the cockpit next to the guard rail so more options, only takes a few minutes if the welder and paintbrush is out anyway. Best to assume it will take a few goes before a decent system evolves :)
 
I had a similar system on my folkboat (used a block instead of LFR). It worked really, really well. Smaller boat meant I could use nylon Barton blocks so not so aggressive on the deck.

I had a windvane on the back of the boat -would hold a perfect course to windward then each tack would spend a moment adjusting the sheets and barber hauls so all tell tails streamed perfectly.

Would definitely recommend
 
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Welcome home.

You want to have as much room in the LFRs as possible (within reason), how big (diameter) are the jib sheets and your blue adjustment sheets. I don't know how big LFRs are supplied. I'm just splicing up some 20mm (internal diameter) Ronstan rings for 12mm rope - and I'm not sure the rings are going to be big enough. I can see your blue adjustment sheets locking each other....???

Jonathan
 
GHA said:
Boat gets more and more simple as time goes on :)

Tracks getting ditched, and the welder is on deck this week so sorting out connection points for the low friction rings. Seems pretty straight forward really, I'll have some half links of stainless chain welded about where the front of the track was and maybe a few inboard just in case. Then dyneema all round, there's already about 3m of dyneema spliced into the front of the jib sheets so should be slippy slippy.
Something like....
genoa-ar-2-17.webp

Sail Trim: Rigging Adjustable Sheet Leads


So anyone else went the same route? Work OK? Anything you'd do different next time?

tia :cool:
Click to expand...
My experience is that you will struggle to get multiple purchases to work in the same ring. They don't seem to sit nicely next to each other. I'd recommend only having 1 purchase through the ring on the sheet but adding more cascades to the tail to make up for it.
 
flaming said:
My experience is that you will struggle to get multiple purchases to work in the same ring. They don't seem to sit nicely next to each other. I'd recommend only having 1 purchase through the ring on the sheet but adding more cascades to the tail to make up for it.
Click to expand...
that will all come out in the mix later, thinking prob double reeved anyway, just need to do the connections now ta
Cruising it's just as easy to luff up a bit to take the force off the sheet then adjust, not a regular occurrence on a wind vane :)
 
GHA said:
that will all come out in the mix later, thinking prob double reeved anyway, just need to do the connections now ta
Cruising it's just as easy to luff up a bit to take the force off the sheet then adjust, not a regular occurrence on a wind vane :)
Click to expand...
True, but you will also see chafe as an issue, even with Dynema, if you double reeve them.
 
I will add that 'low friction rings' do not make a low friction system if you try to use them to bend a fat stiff sheet through a significant angle, around a tight radius. Some people seem keen to use LFRs where a block would be far superior and possibly cheaper.
They have their uses but some people seem keen to use them as some sort of 'pimp my boat' bling.
Don't 'uninvent the (pulley) wheel' just because these things are trendy.
Also, they don't always seem to last very long? Once the coating goes, they become HFRs!
I guess they've been around a while now so the ones I've replaced might have done some years service on a dinghy, but that would only be weekend racing.
LFRs are of course great in terms of not having heavy blocks thrashing about in mid air, and work really well in some circumstances.
I'd think long and hard about keeping the tracks.
 
TernVI said:
I will add that 'low friction rings' do not make a low friction system if you try to use them to bend a fat stiff sheet through a significant angle, around a tight radius. Some people seem keen to use LFRs where a block would be far superior and possibly cheaper
Click to expand...
Yep, that's why I use a snatch block. I'm sure GHA as a cruising sailor, will have one or two laying around.
 
flaming said:
True, but you will also see chafe as an issue, even with Dynema, if you double reeve them.
Click to expand...
Doubt it will be much of an issue actually, not marlow d12 max with it's antichafe coating - i've used that deliberately in some really nasty places before over rough edges with huge dynamic loads for weeks- amazing stuff!
 
TernVI said:
I will add that 'low friction rings' do not make a low friction system if you try to use them to bend a fat stiff sheet through a significant angle, around a tight radius.
Click to expand...

Right in the very first post :rolleyes:
Prob more like 5m of 5mm d12 max on the clew end of the sheets, plenty long enough to be going through the ring, it won't be an issue.

GHA said:
, there's already about 3m of dyneema spliced into the front of the jib sheets so should be slippy slippy.
Click to expand...
 
flaming said:
True, but you will also see chafe as an issue, even with Dynema, if you double reeve them.
Click to expand...
This. Like Flaming said, I would use a cascade on the long leg if you need more purchase. Even if there is not a lot of chafe, the friction will reduce purchase and can snarl. They are normally used in cascades for a reason. Lashings (what you are suggesting) are ONLY used when it is not moving.
 
thinwater said:
Lashings (what you are suggesting) are ONLY used when it is not moving.
Click to expand...
wasn't actually suggesting lashings or exactly that image - "Something like.... "
as per post 11, good chance it will start off being double reeved, maybe with a cascade , maybe not - that will all come out in the mix later. in the real world. Maybe even a little loop spliced in along the way to get a winch to fine tune. If it turns out a snatch block is better than snatch block it shall be.

Think we're done now anyway, a couple good points from those that have used them, thanx!!
 
In that case, the answer is that I've done something similar on every boat I've owned (4) and the specific answer was considerably different on every boat. It depends on geometry and loads. I've never used a cascade; it was either single purchase or I had a secondary winch handy. But a cascade should work.
 
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