Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance cruiser

[Kukri]

Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance cruiser

I hope I may trespass on the time of the experts here. I am 63, have sailed for fifty years and owned boats for 45 of them. For thirty years I owned and loved a beautiful 37ft teak gaff cutter, and I thought, wrongly, that she would "see me out", but I came to realise that her two owners before myself were right, and that she would once again benefit from a younger owner, as indeed she does from the excellent new owner that she now has. I now think that in a few more years I will want to potter off gently towards southeast Asia, where my wife comes from and where we have a lot of friends, so that means GRP.

Which is a whole new world...

I have come to realise that I am not getting stronger or fitter, and that I shall be living off a pension, supplemented by some writing. I am of the generation that considered a Vertue to be quite a big boat, so I don't want anything too big, but she must have the deadweight and the tankage to cross oceans and arrive with something in reserve. I am used to, and more comfortable in, a long keeled boat, but I would prefer the ballast to be external, since it may come into contact with rocks and coral.

I don't want gadgets - clever mainsail systems are not for me, nor are pressure water systems. etc., I must be able to singlehand the boat, and I must be able to fix anything. A lifetime of wooden boats means that cosmetics and interior refits hold no terrors for me - "been there, done that" (and bulkheads frames and floors too!)

She should be cheap and simple to run, but reasonably comfortable, both under way and at anchor, and pleasant to sail. (IOR type rigs are too much hard work!) Aft cockpit and ideally tiller. No teak decks, bowthrusters, etc. I have come to realise that yottitronics are throw away items.

So far my list says Halmatic 30, Rustler 31 (too small?) Challenger 35 (too big?)

Advice very welcome

 

[Tradewinds]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Nicholson 31

 

[Kukri]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Nicholson 31

Thanks. Remember ogling the C&N stand at Boat Shows long ago!

The accommodation will be no less than it was on the 37ft gaff cutter, and that was big enough...

 

[doug748]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

In the present climate a Barbican 33 would be worth looking out for. I am not totally convinced that the keel is bolted though:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/barbican-33/barbican-33.htm

One or two already mentioned have encapsulated keels so you might possibly add the Nich 35 (bit big and expensive)

 

[Tranona]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Nic 32, Tradewind 33, Rival 32/34 to add to your list. Best of luck finding one that will be in good enough condition in that budget without a refit. Just sayin "plus refit" could lead you anywhere as even a modest amount of gear (sails, rigging, engine etc) on 30-40 year old boats will make a big dent in your wallet.

 

[Kukri]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

In the present climate a Barbican 33 would be worth looking out for. I am not totally convinced that the keel is bolted though:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/barbican-33/barbican-33.htm

One or two already mentioned have encapsulated keels so you might possibly add the Nich 35 (bit big and expensive)

A friend has one. Very lovely boat but I had assumed they were outside my price bracket, Would want the centreplate model.

 

[Kukri]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Nic 32, Tradewind 33, Rival 32/34 to add to your list. Best of luck finding one that will be in good enough condition in that budget without a refit. Just sayin "plus refit" could lead you anywhere as even a modest amount of gear (sails, rigging, engine etc) on 30-40 year old boats will make a big dent in your wallet.

Yes, but my thought process is that I know what sort of kit I will want, and would rather spend the money and time than buy someone else's ideas. Having owned a boat that was much younger at 80 than she was when I bought her at 50, I have done plumbing electrics rig furnishings galley etc! In the event that a boat turns up with the work done in a way that I am happy with then the budget adjusts accordingly!

 

[Goldie]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Nicholson 31

+1 for the Halmatic 30, I had one for several years and took her to the Med' and back but I think the Nicholson 31 (and 32 for that matter, but otherwise worth consideration) had encapsulated ballast keels not the external as requested. The Halmatic 30 definitely has external ballast keel.

 

[Kukri]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

+1 for the Halmatic 30, I had one for several years and took her to the Med' and back but I think the Nicholson 31 (and 32 for that matter, but otherwise worth consideration) had encapsulated ballast keels not the external as requested. The Halmatic 30 definitely has external ballast keel.

Thanks for that. I looked at a Halmatic 30 and was most impressed, but sadly she had an assortment of gadgets that put her down the list for the moment, as did a Rustler 31 that I looked at. Both had "systems" that I would want to take off, so better find a boat that was free of them in the first place. "Fish fiddle di-dee, a simple boat for me!"

Do you think I am right to prefer external ballast?

 

[Goldie]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Do you think I am right to prefer external ballast?

Simple is good!

There's more maintenance as the cast iron tends rust through the surface coating periodically meaning blasting/scraping/brushing/ re-priming etc. but after we bit the bullet and had the keep blasted to bare metal and then applied several coats of epoxy we never had to touch it again in the remaining 3 or so years we had the boat. There are also keel bolts to keep an eye on of course. Our next boat was/is a Biscay 36 which has an encapsulated keel so no keel bolts, easy maintenance - just antifoul - unless there's any damage. I'm always warier of what I sit her down on though! I'm afraid there are pros and cons to both designs and in the end, it's personal choice.

FWIW the Rivals as suggested in #5 above meet the external ballast criteria, but they're fin keel and I'm assuming that by 'long keel' your preference is for a keel with the rudder hung on the back of it.

 

[Kukri]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Simple is good!

There's more maintenance as the cast iron tends rust through the surface coating periodically meaning blasting/scraping/brushing/ re-priming etc. but after we bit the bullet and had the keep blasted to bare metal and then applied several coats of epoxy we never had to touch it again in the remaining 3 or so years we had the boat. There are also keel bolts to keep an eye on of course. Our next boat was/is a Biscay 36 which has an encapsulated keel so no keel bolts, easy maintenance - just antifoul - unless there's any damage. I'm always warier of what I sit her down on though! I'm afraid there are pros and cons to both designs and in the end, it's personal choice.

FWIW the Rivals as suggested in #5 above meet the external ballast criteria, but they're fin keel and I'm assuming that by 'long keel' your preference is for a keel with the rudder hung on the back of it.

Thanks. Probably just me but I didn't care for the couple of Rivals that I have been aboard, although a lot of people like them. After a lifetime of making off a tiller line, pottering up to the foredeck and fiddling around and meandering back again with the boat still pointing more or less the same way I am definitely better with the rudder attached to the keel! With encapsulated ballast I would be all of a twitch when drying out alongside, which is the sort of thing wooden boat folks like I was do without a second thought.

 

[Goldie]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Elizabethan 31 (choice of sloop or ketch) or Elizabethan 33?

 

[steve yates]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Excuse my ignorance, but why is an encapsulated keel worse for drying out in than a bolted on one?
And if you hit ricks or coral, would an encapsulated one not take the shock better? As it and the boat are structurally of a piece? Would a bolt in keel notbe more at risk of ripping off or defirming badly, thus risking the keel bolts and holing the hull?

 

[Kukri]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Excuse my ignorance, but why is an encapsulated keel worse for drying out in than a bolted on one?
And if you hit ricks or coral, would an encapsulated one not take the shock better? As it and the boat are structurally of a piece? Would a bolt in keel notbe more at risk of ripping off or defirming badly, thus risking the keel bolts and holing the hull?

The ignorance is mine - GRP boats are new to me. Thank you for the explanation.

 

[Goldie]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Excuse my ignorance, but why is an encapsulated keel worse for drying out in than a bolted on one?
And if you hit ricks or coral, would an encapsulated one not take the shock better? As it and the boat are structurally of a piece? Would a bolt in keel notbe more at risk of ripping off or defirming badly, thus risking the keel bolts and holing the hull?

If you were referring to a bolted on fin keel, I'd probably say 'yes' but with a long keel being bolted over a much greater area and usually, with an upper surface angled so that shock would largely be absorbed by the hull rather than a shearing action, I think the scenario you propose is less likely. The disadvantage of an encapsulated keel is that impact damage to the grp allows water ingress, can be difficult to dry out all the surrounding area and necessitates a repair over a much wider area. If drying out on a heavy lump of cast iron and you sit on a few sharp stones, it's simple job to make good. With an encapsulated keel, it can take a lot more time and effort to make good. As I suggested earlier, there's no 'best', just pros and cons. I've had both and if the boat was right, would happily consider either.

 

[Tranona]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

Thanks. Probably just me but I didn't care for the couple of Rivals that I have been aboard, although a lot of people like them. After a lifetime of making off a tiller line, pottering up to the foredeck and fiddling around and meandering back again with the boat still pointing more or less the same way I am definitely better with the rudder attached to the keel! With encapsulated ballast I would be all of a twitch when drying out alongside, which is the sort of thing wooden boat folks like I was do without a second thought.

When the subject of keels comes up here, encapsulated keels are generally hold to be one of the defining characteristics of "proper" boats! I think because boats designed to be built of wood and then made of GRP were easier (and cheaper) to mould with the keel as part of the moulding. Better ones did have lead ballast, but many had iron or scrap which can cause problems if the GRP is punctured.

As soon as designers caught on to the idea that keels did not need to be so bulky encapsulated keels lost their appeal. Some long keels (like the Halmatic) had deep moulded sumps and bolt on keels which overcomes one of the downsides of fully encapsulated in that the ballast has to be higher up because of the loss of volume due to the GRP casing.

BTW I was doing just as you describe today, walking the decks with the boat steering itself in 14 knots of wind. Modern fin and spade rudder! Being able to leave the boat to its own devices is not the exclusive preserve of long keels and attached rudders, neither do all boats like that steer themselves!

 

[Babylon]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

n a few more years I will want to potter off gently towards southeast Asia...

I don't want anything too big, but she must have the deadweight and the tankage to cross oceans and arrive with something in reserve. I am used to, and more comfortable in, a long keeled boat...

I must be able to singlehand the boat, and I must be able to fix anything...

She should be cheap and simple to run, but reasonably comfortable, both under way and at anchor, and pleasant to sail. Aft cockpit and ideally tiller...

So far my list says Halmatic 30, Rustler 31 (too small?) Challenger 35 (too big?)

Although even cheaper older ones are higher than your budget range, you'd fulfil virtually all your other criteria by going for an early 1980s Vancouver 32.

Cutter-rigged, so you'd have the flexible 3-sail plan to handle, which you are used to, rather than the two larger sails of a Bermudan-rig on a comparable-sized boat.

Large tanks and intelligently-designed interior stowage for long-distance cruising.

Long lead-encapulated keel, so grounding or drying to scrub no worries in the slightest.

Goes astern with more directional confidence than traditional long-keelers.

Single-hands like a dream - especially if fitted with wind-vane self-steering.

Large proper chart-table, manual water and bilge systems, etc, etc.

I'm very familiar with the make, as I've sailed and extensively refurbished/upgraded a 1982 Vancouver 27 over the last eight years - pics below show her after a one-tide scrub of her Coppercoat last weekend.

Your only issue would be the teak deck, however these were originally proper 1/4" thick stuff so nothing like the modern veneers. You could always strip the lot off, seal holes and paint with sand or the suchlike.

Hope this is of some use.

See PM also.
Jon

 

[Kelpie]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

A friend has one. Very lovely boat but I had assumed they were outside my price bracket, Would want the centreplate model.

If you would consider a centreboard, you might like the boat I have- not that mine's for sale though, and they are quite rare. Bolt on lead keel with centreboard, keel stepped mast, masthead rig, available with tiller or wheel; not an attached rudder but a relatively long keel.

Simple is good!

There's more maintenance as the cast iron tends rust through the surface coating periodically meaning blasting/scraping/brushing/ re-priming etc. but after we bit the bullet and had the keep blasted to bare metal and then applied several coats of epoxy we never had to touch it again in the remaining 3 or so years we had the boat. There are also keel bolts to keep an eye on of course. Our next boat was/is a Biscay 36 which has an encapsulated keel so no keel bolts, easy maintenance - just antifoul - unless there's any damage. I'm always warier of what I sit her down on though! I'm afraid there are pros and cons to both designs and in the end, it's personal choice.

FWIW the Rivals as suggested in #5 above meet the external ballast criteria, but they're fin keel and I'm assuming that by 'long keel' your preference is for a keel with the rudder hung on the back of it.

I thought the Rivals were encapsulated keels? Is there not a potential (fixable) problem with leaks in the after part of the keel moulding?

 

[Wansworth]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

My limited experience of the Nice 32 was the helm couldn't ve left whilst 7bder power and the toilet was a tight fit for err normal people......... but it sailed a treat!

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

Re: Looking slowly for the "Last Boat" - budget 15- 20K plus refit long distance crui

An HR Monsun 31 fits your bill here is one ready for you to put your stamp on http://www.euroyachts.com/boats-for-sale/