Long keeler choices

[yotanorak]

You must have had this posted a fair few times I reckon however, how about an update on your collective thoughts!

If a chap, with a limited budget, was offered a choice between a similar condition, similar spec, similar priced Contessa 26 and Halcyon 27 what is the forum feeling on the better prospect? I would expect to be based in a marina at the head of a tidal river so am aware of the limitations of the depth of the keel.

I would expect to do a fair amount of single handing once comfortable with mainly day sailing initially. In due course I would be more adventurous and head over the horizon. I think mum would only deign to come aboard for a bit of river chugging and mooring up for an overnight next to a pub so space is not a huge requisite.

Interested to hear any opinions

Brgds

Alan

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[halcyon]

As a Halcyon 27 owner I'm biased.
Our boat has been trans-Atlantic with the previous owners, going to the States, West Indies, Azores, Med, and back to the UK. It has also clocked up 160 plus mile in 24 hours, but it was in the Gulf stream.
In YM A to Z they discribe it as a " sailer boat ", someone may expand on it's meaning.

Though at the end of the day it may well be a personal thing, which feels right for you.

Brian

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[webcraft]

I think there's probably a lot more interior volume on the Halcyon, and she may be a bit drier. I've never been aboard one, but have been on a Contessa 26 and can confirm that they are quite cramped below!

Both are proven pocket blue water cruisers.

- Nick

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[snowleopard]

a chap who chooses to singlehand a long keeler in and out of a marina has to be an expert boat handler or an optimist. do you have a strong preference for the type or is it a question of what's on offer?

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[Evadne]

Don't listen to him, he sails a catamaran. You get to be an expert quite quickly, or an expert in kedging off the mud. Long keelers are much misunderstood by those who have rope-catchers (skegs and spade rudders). They are not unpredictable, just intractable. They go forwards, they turn, better to starboard than to port (unless your prop goes round the other way) and they slow down when you apply reverse. They also carry their way in a straight line, even if you let go of the tiller sometimes, and are great at slow maneuvering, usually being less affected by the wind. These last two qualities make them ideal for single handers. Well, a good choice anyway.

What they don't do easily is reverse in a straight line or turn on a sixpence against the prop kick. Trying to make them do this usually ends in tears. They kick sideways quite hard when you do apply reverse, less so in forward gear. They are also a tad slower than an otherwise identical fin & skeg boat due to the wetted area, but are easy to sail.


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[Paulka]

Fully agree!
I sail my long keeler single handed since well over 20 years.
No catastrophe yet, not even a small bump!

... and I am not an expert.

Go ahead and enjoy.

Paul

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[halcyon]

Did find changing frim a two to a three blade prop helped the Hurley 27 going astern, point the rudder were you wanted to go, and it would go.
Never found a problem with long keel, had problems with a fin keel, let go of the tiller to pick something up once, next thing we were pointing the other direction.


Brian

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[halcyon]

Did find changing from a two to a three blade prop helped the Hurley 27 going astern, point the rudder were you wanted to go, and it would go.
Never found a problem with long keel, had problems with a fin keel, let go of the tiller to pick something up once, next thing we were pointing the other direction.


Brian

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[Mike2822425]

If you think the Contessa 26 is cramped below, come for a sail on my Folk Boat on which the Contessa is based (the Contessa is big) but wait untill it gets "unexpectedly" rough and you will know why you bought a long keel boat.

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[halcyon]

With the Halcyon you get standing headroom in the cabin ( 6 foot ), and nearly in the heads and forward cabin.
Though if going across the Atlantic, ther are a number of mods that are useful, based on our boat.


Brian

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[LeonF]

I had my first sail on Saturday in my Victoria 800 having downsized from a Sigma 33. No time for a shakedown sail so straight in from Chichester to Brighton. I was expecting her to be much more dificult astern but to my surprise she went in a straight line--perhaps the canoe stern helps? Broad reaching all the way in a Force5/6 with big seas on the beam I was pleasantly surprised how well she handled and once I learned to trust her I enjoyed the ride. Bodes well for the summer and I intend to single hand. Go for the long keel!

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[Mirelle]

Halcyon is roomier and probably drier and in terms of sailing performance I would not think there is much difference.

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[Avocet]

If you're on a budget I'd suggest a Cutlass 27 ('cause I've got one!) We looked at a Contessa 26 and ruled it out because it was a fair bit more expensive and I couldn't stand up inside. The Cutlass displays all the qualities for which long-keelers are famous - excellent straight line stability, easy sea-kindly motion and the ability to bash its way through a wave rather than stop dead. Even with our old, baggy sails, one-fingered steering in a force 4 is quite realistic. It is, however, also true to say it never goes astern in the same direction twice but does have a tighter turning circle than you'd expect for this kind of boat going ahead. Also a fair bit quicker than you'd think, mainly because of the 7'6" beam. Initially pretty tender, then stiffens up at about 25 degrees of heel. An unexpected benefit is that when you run aground on something soft, the weight of a couple of crewmembers on the foredeck nearly always slides the boat off backwards because of the sloping forefoot. The downside is the lack of space down below but similar boats (Contessa, Folkboat etc) are pretty similar in that respect. Also look at an Albin Vega. I've heard great things about their sailing ability but they have an offset prop so are even worse under power.

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[yotanorak]

Goodness me I didn't expect such a healthy response! Many thanks to you all for your contributions. A lot of deliberating matter there.

Just to push my luck and ask one more question - would you be inclined to go to the trouble of fitting a manual windlass if one wasn't already fitted? I bet you are going to say there is stuff all room to do so!

Brgds

Alan

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[Mirelle]

I would not fit a manual windlass. It is a lot of weight and expense and makes a mess of the foredeck.

I WOULD fit a chain pawl - this gives you most of the benefits of a windlass at a fraction of the weight and expense and takes no room. The classis description is in Claud Worth's "Yacht Cruising" but all it amounts to is a pawl fitted above the bow roller so that when thrown over aft it traps a link of chain and when thrown over forward the chain can run freely.

In use you pull the chain in manually but the pawl traps it between heaves - if the anchor is hard to break out leave it on the pawl, walk aft and the boat will break it out for you. No more trapped fingers trying to snatch a turn.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[Evadne]

I wouldn't, but it depends on how much chain you carry and what your back's like. I have a similar size boat (Elizabethan 29) and have managed for 18 years without even a pawl, but I only anchor in shallow water, so I've only got about 50m of chain. If you have roller reefing then you may find the sacrifice in foredeck space less of a problem if you did fit one.

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[DavidTocher]

I was interested in buyng a Cutlass but was told that a 5'4" person couldn't stand upright in the saloon! You must be shorter than me to tolerate living in such a low cabin.

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[yotanorak]

>>I wouldn't, but it depends on how much chain you carry and what your back's like.<<

My back is a bit on the shabby side hence posting the question about windlasses.

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[Avocet]

I'm beginning to think my boat's a bit odd! You're not the first person to say that! I'm 5'11" in my socks and I can (just) stand up at the aft end of the main saloon (immediately under the hatch). I can't remember the headroom at the forward end of the main saloon - certainly lt's less - 5'6" maybe. I have to lean my head to one side. I'll take a tape measure with me next time I'm down and post some accurate numbers. One thing I have noticed is that there is a good 6" under the cabin sole before you reach the ballast. I use this space for keeping tools and similar junk (oh, and lager - 'cause it's cold down there!). If I wanted more headroom, I could trim the sole boards down so they sat lower -but of course, they would get narrower. Maybe someone has already done it to this boat?

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[BellBoy]

I'd go for the Contessa 26. Its been there, done that. If you want to sail in comfort then stay home and watch a sailing movie, or rob a millionaire.
Take out the engine too and plug up the aperture and really learn how to sail while gaining a knot in speed on all points of sail by not dragging that sea-anchor/aperture.
To learn more I refer you to the best book I have ever read on sailing: "Wind & Tide" - by Jerome Fitzgerald. You will probably find it on Amazon books website.

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