London boat show canned!

[flaming]

I was at the first few Excel shows and my recollection is that there were lots and lots of sailing boats on show, perhaps even more than we had been able to cram in at EC. We just did not sell enough of them to pay our way. Flaming may have some numbers to support this?

Yes, naturally I don't have access to the numbers any more, but I have seen them. When the Show first went to Excel there were more exhibitors and more boats, including a whole small boat area. Every boat that's not come back in the years since is an exhibitor taking the commercial decision that they didn't actually sell enough of them, or going bust! It's a curious thing about these threads that the organisers get the majority of the blame for there not being more boats there, when the simple fact is that if we were buying them they'd be there!

The organisers did everything in their power to attract people. We put in a giant pool, did liferaft demos, lifejacket demos, wakeboarding shows, SUP, canoe polo, model yacht racing, model powerboat racing, have a go sessions with kids, you name it. And we built a demo rig on a turntable and ran cruising chute and spinnaker demos. They were REALLY good. And organised talks from the likes of Tom Cunliffe, Mike Golding and a hundred others.... But ultimately it's an exhibitor Show, and the money just wasn't being spent with enough exhibitors to keep them coming back.

 

[st599]

Just seen this: http://www.motorboatowner.co.uk/news.php

surprised and not surprised at the same time

Living in West London, it was cheaper and quicker to go to Duesseldorf, a huge show with real bargains.

 

[dom]

The organisers did everything in their power to attract people. We put in a giant pool, did liferaft demos, lifejacket demos, wakeboarding shows, SUP, canoe polo, model yacht racing, model powerboat racing, have a go sessions with kids, you name it. And we built a demo rig on a turntable and ran cruising chute and spinnaker demos. They were REALLY good. And organised talks from the likes of Tom Cunliffe, Mike Golding and a hundred others....

I went in 2016 and never saw any of that

 

[flaming]

I went in 2016 and never saw any of that

That was a list of what I was involved in, my last year was 2012. 2016 had (from memory) a smaller pool for kids to try SUP, canoeing etc and a couple of expert theatres. I know the offering had been thinned down a bit, because it was determined that doing all that just wasn't bringing people through the door unfortunately. It was just seen by the visitors as something nice to see once you were there, not a reason to visit.

 

[Seven Spades]

The volume of new boats being sold has fallen dramatically over the last 20 years so it is enivitable that the reuurn on exhibiting is going to make the whole question of exhibiting had to justify.

Lets be honest, how many people go to Southampton and see a boat that they had never thought of an buy it. If you want a Rustler you do not need to go to SIBS to make that choice or do you? It is certainly easier for us to go from boat to boat so it is sad that it has gone but i think incremental sales would have been low.

 

[lw395]

I beg to differ. I find the transfer from Tube to DLR very inconvenient. Coming from Kings Cross the transfer at either Bank or at Tower Gateway is quite a long walk! Once on the DLR, everything is easy, but getting on the DLR is a bit of a pain. I may be spoilt - I lived in London for about 5 years, and my late wife was a native Londoner - but I was very disappointed with the poor connection between the DLR and the Tube network.

Retaining Earl's Court was never an option - the place was due for demolition anyway - and Excel was probably the best choice for a London based show. But where I think it went wrong was assuming that it was primarily a show for new boats, rather than a show for boat owners. When I go to a boat show, I may look at a few new boats for curiosity's sake, but I'm not in the market for a new boat, and I suspect that describes a majority here. If I was, I almost certainly wouldn't be looking at new boats. I do, however, have a boat for which I'm always on the lookout for new ideas and ways of doing things! And I always need things like clothing, rope, chandlery and so on. Earl's Court had MANY stalls at which you could browse for ideas and often come away with some neat little gadget that did just what you wanted. Excel didn't, and my reason for disliking Excel is as simple as that! SIBS does retain a good mix of new boats and gadget/chandlery stands, and so I still enjoy that show - though I spend far more time in the marquees than I do on the pontoons.

I think all those neat little gadgets being marketed is part of the big issue, it's a bygone age.
Existing boat owners wandering around buying a few gismos to hold their pencils on the chart table or keep their flag halyard tidy don't make a return for the immense cost of exhibiting an Oyster 60.
The problem is, we expect there to be lots of interesting boats to look at which we've zero intention of buying. The boat retailers are paying a lot of money to entertain us for no return. Obviously many of us are also paying for our tickets, so we think the show should be exactly what we want.
I did get shown around Ellen's open 60 once, that was well worth the ticket price, but I think I got a free ticket that year anyway.
If I want to decide what AWB to buy, I will probably phone around the importers and go and see them over a few weeks, they all look much the same at the shows.

The trouble with SIBS is that it's in the sailing season, so unless I've got a free weekday I don't go.
OTOH, the dinghy show is too late, just as we're thinking about sailing again, if the tide's in.

 

[newtothis]

No one seems to have any concern for the real victims here. What will happen to all those vendors of luxury cars, large gas barbecues and garden sheds that LIBS was so good at providing for?

 

[Mark-1]

The trouble with SIBS is that it's in the sailing season, so unless I've got a free weekday I don't go.

This.

I get free tickets and live relatively locally, but a Summer weekend is too precious to waste looking around a show.

Personally I agree with the people saying that the root cause is that the internet has taken it's toll on Boat Shows, in the same way that it's taken it's toll on Town Centres.

PS: I preferred Earl's Court to Excel.

 

[dom]

...it's a bygone age.
Existing boat owners wandering around buying a few gismos to hold their pencils on the chart table or keep their flag halyard tidy don't make a return for the immense cost of exhibiting an Oyster 60.
The problem is, we expect there to be lots of interesting boats to look at which we've zero intention of buying. The boat retailers are paying a lot of money to entertain us for no return. Obviously many of us are also paying for our tickets, so we think the show should be exactly what we want.

To be fair, those impulse purchases can be a bit bigger than that. I once bought a big rib, never used it much and am consequently banned from looking at the beautiful clinker boats at the entrance to Southampton...

...which I wld most certainly purchase for an imaginary late-evening sail in an imaginary life!

Then there was that intoxicating mid-winter smell of newly minted fibreglass boats, a parfum infinitely better than the mainstream offerings!

But you're right, EC was a commercially nonviable Nautical Disney, which us Londoners could bunk-off work early to visit, then off for a beer and a curry before the 9:55pm train back to suburbia.

Edit: I liked it

 

[laika]

Living in West London, it was cheaper and quicker to go to Duesseldorf, a huge show with real bargains.

Can you explain a bit about how you made that comparative calculation? Unless you're talking about London, Ontario I'm not really sure how that would work...

 

[CLB]

Living in West London, it was cheaper and quicker to go to Duesseldorf

Sorry, but that just has to be utter cobblers on both counts.

 

[newtothis]

Sorry, but that just has to be utter cobblers on both counts.

To be fair, flight time from London to Dusseldorf is 1.10; public transport from, say, Uxbridge to Excel is 1.25.
Not sure if you could get an easyjet for the price of a zone 6 travel card, but with a bit of forward planning you might get lucky.

 

[dom]

Sorry, but that just has to be utter cobblers on both counts.

Who knows, availability is iffy but RAF Northolt allows private jets -- 10 mins to Boot at the other end. He did say West London

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I think all those neat little gadgets being marketed is part of the big issue, it's a bygone age.
Existing boat owners wandering around buying a few gismos to hold their pencils on the chart table or keep their flag halyard tidy don't make a return for the immense cost of exhibiting an Oyster 60.
The problem is, we expect there to be lots of interesting boats to look at which we've zero intention of buying. The boat retailers are paying a lot of money to entertain us for no return. Obviously many of us are also paying for our tickets, so we think the show should be exactly what we want.
I did get shown around Ellen's open 60 once, that was well worth the ticket price, but I think I got a free ticket that year anyway.
If I want to decide what AWB to buy, I will probably phone around the importers and go and see them over a few weeks, they all look much the same at the shows.

The trouble with SIBS is that it's in the sailing season, so unless I've got a free weekday I don't go.
OTOH, the dinghy show is too late, just as we're thinking about sailing again, if the tide's in.

I think my point is that there's a lot more of us looking for gadgets and other equipment than are looking for the latest boat offerings. And I'm not necessarily talking peanuts; last time I attended a boat show (SIBS), I was looking to buy a new sail; it was a good way of comparing the offers from different sail-makers, and getting a feel for how well they understood MY needs, rather than those of an ideal customer. Even when I've attended a show without any particular projects in mind, I've spent quite a lot of money - several hundred pounds. Of the thousands passing the doors, how many are actually going to buy a new boat? Perhaps one in a thousand, or even less? I would argue that those who go looking for gadgets actually spend a lot more money than those looking for new boats.Next time I go, I'll probably be looking at solar panels, deck hardware and no doubt a few other impulse buys! For me the stalls with gadgets are the draw, not the boats for sale.

Personally, I'd go to SIBS even if there were NO new boats on show - that isn't why I go. The boats on show are great fun, and I like seeing them, but both my wife and I know that isn't why we're there, so a quick whizz round the pontoons is all we bother with. And if I do go aboard one, I make it very clear we're not buying, and would happily make way for people who were more likely to buy!

 

[lw395]

So why were sailmakers and chnadlers not fighting over pitches?
I would think it's the new boats that paid the big bucks to exhibit, both directly to the show and in transport costs.
Whereas SIBS, the boats are easier to transport. I wonder what a trade stand costs at SIBS? Or a pontoon show berth?

 

[laika]

To be fair, flight time from London to Dusseldorf is 1.10; public transport from, say, Uxbridge to Excel is 1.25.
Not sure if you could get an easyjet for the price of a zone 6 travel card, but with a bit of forward planning you might get lucky.

The fastest flight time (1:10) is from City. But clearly he wasn't talking about city as city is pretty close to excel so wherever you're coming from by the time you get to a gate you could be in the hall at excel. So for best advantage to this argument let's assume he lives in an airport hotel at heathrow. Fastest flight times are 1:20/1:25. Let's imagine walking to the terminal is the same as walking to the tube station. Unless you've got top tier flight status to get through fast track on an economy ticket you're going to be turning up 1:30 before the flight. Bare minimum 1 hour. At the other end you've got to get through passport control, then to public transport where it's, what...10 mins on the bus? I think we're talking about a bare minimum of 3h 30 with no delays and assuming you're already living in the airport. OTOH given the assumptions above, you can get from heathrow to excel (according to tfl) in less than 1:30 including walking from the DLR to the exhibition hall, less still if you don't mind paying for the heathrow express.

Regarding costs...let's make the same assumptions as above so st599 has no costs to get to heathrow and we discount the bus fare at the other end. minimum cost for a flight is £90 return. Let's assume he has a short day there rather than getting hotel for the night. Zone 1-6 day travel (to get to excel) is capped at £12:50.

fwiw tfl's site says uxbridge to custom house is ~1:10, prince regent a couple of minutes further.

In other words...If you live in a heathrow hotel journey time is *very best case* 133% more than excel and cost is 620% more. And you'll get less time at the show. But for any practical case the difference will be rather more than that.

...which isn't to say that Boot isn't worth going to

 

[Biggles Wader]

Living in West London, it was cheaper and quicker to go to Duesseldorf, a huge show with real bargains.

That is fake news or did you mean "Living in West Lothian"?

 

[newtothis]

The fastest flight time (1:10) is from City. But clearly he wasn't talking about city as city is pretty close to excel so wherever you're coming from by the time you get to a gate you could be in the hall at excel. So for best advantage to this argument let's assume he lives in an airport hotel at heathrow. Fastest flight times are 1:20/1:25. Let's imagine walking to the terminal is the same as walking to the tube station. Unless you've got top tier flight status to get through fast track on an economy ticket you're going to be turning up 1:30 before the flight. Bare minimum 1 hour. At the other end you've got to get through passport control, then to public transport where it's, what...10 mins on the bus? I think we're talking about a bare minimum of 3h 30 with no delays and assuming you're already living in the airport. OTOH given the assumptions above, you can get from heathrow to excel (according to tfl) in less than 1:30 including walking from the DLR to the exhibition hall, less still if you don't mind paying for the heathrow express.

Regarding costs...let's make the same assumptions as above so st599 has no costs to get to heathrow and we discount the bus fare at the other end. minimum cost for a flight is £90 return. Let's assume he has a short day there rather than getting hotel for the night. Zone 1-6 day travel (to get to excel) is capped at £12:50.

fwiw tfl's site says uxbridge to custom house is ~1:10, prince regent a couple of minutes further.

In other words...If you live in a heathrow hotel journey time is *very best case* 133% more than excel and cost is 620% more. And you'll get less time at the show. But for any practical case the difference will be rather more than that.

...which isn't to say that Boot isn't worth going to

And I thought I had too much time on my hands...

 

[laika]

And I thought I had too much time on my hands...

Displacement activity. I'm supposed to be devising a refit plan, moving most of my possessions off the boat into storage and taking the boat to a yet-to-be-determined location to be hauled out before starting a new job the week after next. Checking google flights and the tfl web site is a far more achievable goal.

 

[Mark-1]

Displacement activity. I'm supposed to be devising a refit plan, moving most of my possessions off the boat into storage and taking the boat to a yet-to-be-determined location to be hauled out before starting a new job the week after next. Checking google flights and the tfl web site is a far more achievable goal.