Lockdown sailing

BlowingOldBoots said:
I don't think that conclsuion stands up to scrutiny. Some may think they are special but the majority appear to not make any comment on it, at all. It could even be conferred that, based on the behaviour of the majority of people in this country, that the majority of sailors agree with the intent of social isolation.

If you frequent a place that has a degree of complaining and take part in the discussions involving complaints, then it is hardly surprising that complaints feature significantly. At any time on this form, the number of active members and the number of sailors expressing how hard done they are, demonstrates that the majority have not expressed an opinion on how hard done they are.

I would guess that the majority of sailors understand the situation we are all in, accept it, while lamenting the fact that weather is good and a sail would just the tonic needed, but alas we have been asked not to.
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I stand corrected and thank you for doing so ,
Of course my posting only apply to a few on YBW and other sites ,
most have accept that's the way things are and it's for the good of everyone we don't keep moving around,
everyday on other sailing forum people asking the question if it's ok for them to go for a sail and when they get the respond not to their likely they accuse people of policing them .
 
PhillM said:
+1 - its no crime to have a whinge from time to time. Whinging does not make anyone an inherently bad person. In fact boards like there are here to share the good time and the bad.
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In that case Phil you won't mind me whinging that's some should stop whinging and get on with it and do what's ask of them in these times :)
 
jordanbasset said:
That is not my reading of the rules, the point you are referring to in the guidance notes that 'It is lawful to drive for exercise' should be taken in the context of what has been said before, in other words you can drive if the exercise you are talking is longer than the driving
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You could be right, but I cannot say why they would have to add that guidance - surely the point is perfectly well made in the matrix of reasonability?
Either way these are only guidance notes, the law is what matters and you will not find anything in the law which says it is lawful to drive for exercise.
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We live in a system - thank goodness - in which we can do anything which is not legally prohibited. However, I agree completely that going for a drive does not seem to be covered by any of the sample reasonable excuses in the law.
 
PhillM said:
+1 - its no crime to have a whinge from time to time. Whinging does not make anyone an inherently bad person. In fact boards like there are here to share the good time and the bad.
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I wonder if living for a while in a world in which the police treat us all with suspicion and dubious on-the-spot "interpretation" of the law will lead to any greater sympathy for our BME compatriots who have to go through this sort of thing all the time? Could be another way in which the world will change.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Plenty of people hiking and horseriding still around here, and any substantial number of people on a golf course would be a problem. As far as I can see, nobody is actually sailing, but I find it had to see any activity as selfish if done in a way which causes no appreciable additional risk. Sailing from island to island and going on shops each would clearly be unwise and selfish; going out for a solo or family day sail as the Dutch are doing in great numbers isn't either.
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The Dutch had 84 new Cv19 cases yesterday
 
duncan99210 said:
Attendance at allotments is specifically allowed in the guidance.
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Although police have been rolling up at the allotments where a friend of mine has one and shouting through the fence at anyone they see sitting down. The allotment holders are therefore putting a new fence up to block the view.
 
JumbleDuck said:
They had 1,066 confirmed cases - which like all number of cases reported anywhere will be waaaaaay below the true number. Only 83 deaths, which suggests that their lockdown is working rather better than ours.
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Maybe, though it's hard to be sure how to interpret the data owing to pre-existing comorbidities within many patients, different testing policies, social pressures, different data collation practices, etc. Take a look at the latest ONS data and in particular the "Covid-19 as a cause of death" heading in the link below. It also includes data on how the UK lockdown is going -- generally better than Germany in respect of which differential survival rates are almost impossible to standardise for the purposes of comparison:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) roundup - Office for National Statistics
 
sailaboutvic said:
In that case Phil you won't mind me whinging that's some should stop whinging and get on with it and do what's ask of them in these times :)
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Hmm but then this would be a very quiet place indeed!

As for "doing what is asked", I am. However, I do not see voicing concern for my boat as mutually exclusive to being a good citizen and following both the law and the guidance about the law.
 
JumbleDuck said:
One of us is misreading the rules, and I think it's you. They say that driving a short distance in order to exercise is fine (I agree), that driving a long distance to exercise isn't (I agree) and going for a drive around for exercise - ie as exercise in itself, without getting out - is fine. The gear shift of my old Citroen has a fair travel, but I don't really think I get much of a workout from waggling it around.
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I see the point you are trying to make now. You have interpreted "It is lawful to drive for exercise" as saying the very act of driving could constitute exercise. I would suggest that is not what it is saying at all. If you take that statement within the context of the comments they are making they are clearly giving guidance to officers of wether people are allowed to drive somewhere for exercise. They give examples where it would be reasonable and therefore within the regulations, and examples of where it would not. They then make a clear statement, the act of driving for exercise (as in driving somewhere for exercise) is not in itself illegal so the officer would need to evidence the purpose behind the driving, not just the fact that the defendant was driving and therefore not exercising.

And thank you for providing that reference.
 
A comment from Lawyer Nick Freeman known as Mr Loophole.

"Essential travel is largely defined as shopping for necessities,picking up medical supplies,caring for a vulnerable person and getting to and from work if you cannot do so from home".

"Anything else is not really acceptable so if you have an accident and cannot prove that your journey was essential your insurance may be void"

I am sure this would apply to a boat as well as motor vehicle.
 
dom said:
Maybe, though it's hard to be sure how to interpret the data owing to pre-existing comorbidities within many patients, different testing policies, social pressures, different data collation practices, etc.
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Absolutely. Have you noticed that the BBC is now careful to report "deaths with coronavirus" rather than "deaths from coronavirus"?
 
Triassic said:
I see the point you are trying to make now. You have interpreted "It is lawful to drive for exercise" as saying the very act of driving could constitute exercise. I would suggest that is not what it is saying at all.
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I think you could well be right ... can we agree that it's a big ambiguous?

And thank you for providing that reference.
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You're welcome. Just for the record, I think the fact that we have unarmed policing by consent is, alongside the NHS, one of the great things about the UK.
 
Sandyshore said:
A comment from Lawyer Nick Freeman known as Mr Loophole.

"Essential travel is largely defined as shopping for necessities,picking up medical supplies,caring for a vulnerable person and getting to and from work if you cannot do so from home".

"Anything else is not really acceptable so if you have an accident and cannot prove that your journey was essential your insurance may be void"

I am sure this would apply to a boat as well as motor vehicle.
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Nonsense sorry mr Loophole deals with Cars not boats, the guidelines specifically say you can drive to an area and exercise as long as your exercise is longer than the drive, if your boat is accessible i,e out of a marina say on a mooring and you drove their and got in you tender and sailed for the day and came back,
this in law could be defined as reasonable as you took precautions in your distancing , you did not enter a locked down marina and you came into no contact with anyone , this is reasonable Behaviour from an Adult, Not interested in the forums Views or their opinions or morality, this would be decide by a Judge and no doubt hey would win.,,, (Sailing is not a holiday home or static caravan, it is exercise)
I do not condone this but either would I do it as my Boat is in a Locked down marina,
 
FlyingGoose said:
Nonsense sorry mr Loophole deals with Cars not boats, the guidelines specifically say you can drive to an area and exercise as long as your exercise is longer than the drive, if your boat is accessible i,e out of a marina say on a mooring and you drove their and got in you tender and sailed for the day and came back,
this in law could be defined as reasonable as you took precautions in your distancing , you did not enter a locked down marina and you came into no contact with anyone , this is reasonable Behaviour from an Adult, Not interested in the forums Views or their opinions or morality, this would be decide by a Judge and no doubt hey would win.,,, (Sailing is not a holiday home or static caravan, it is exercise)
I do not condone this but either would I do it as my Boat is in a Locked down marina,
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not interested in reasonable adult behavour ( if such a thing existed in englands green ) ,, we need herd mentality and hysteria , that is what sells news papers and controls people .
 
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