Lockdown sailing

[dom]

Just a point on pneumococcal Inoculations: these have been available since last autumn alongside the flu jab for those who qualify, so most folks over 65 should have had the one off shot.

True, but pneumococcal vaccines don't seem to prevent community/hospital-acquired pneumonia. They do, however, seem to improve outcomes. Guessing it's still far too early to say with Covid-19

 

[cherod]

No one asked for any medical records or any personal information. I asked whether you could be sure they were telling you the truth or whether you could be sure they had coronavirus or not. Clearly the answer is no and that's exactly what the hospitals are struggling with. My point here is, sure it's not the best data in the world and no one said it was. However it is the best we have and we have no reason to doubt the evidence we have.

i wonder how many on here have actual experience of CV or anyone affected , my experience and that of the persons that i know, ( i gave some rough figures ) is very different to the statistics from which you base your argument. Clearly the answere is not no , of course i am sure that they are telling me the truth , with evidence ... at least you can accept that your evidence is not the best ,, far from it , which was my point , and i certainly would not form any argument from it.

 

[NotBirdseye]

The evidence provided by the WHO and the NHS is far better quality that your own anecdotal evidence that has been subject to no controls, no sampling requirements and cannot be extrapolated. With the data from the WHO and the NHS we can see that if we stick to the measures we have in place then the infection rates will begin to fall. We know that these measures had the desired effect due to the trajectory of the US that put the controls in late. We know that these measures will work due to Italy and we know what will happen if we let up due to what happened during the spanish flu epidemic.

I know which data I would rather base my arguments on.

 

[newtothis]

No no no, can't do that. That's how they get microscopic RFID chips implanted into everyone....

Pretty sure newtothis was being sarcastic btw.

It's another well-known fact that the chemtrails you still see, despite all flights being cancelled, are comprised mainly of Darjeeling fumes.

 

[newtothis]

The evidence provided by the WHO and the NHS is far better quality that your own anecdotal evidence that has been subject to no controls, no sampling requirements and cannot be extrapolated. With the data from the WHO and the NHS we can see that if we stick to the measures we have in place then the infection rates will begin to fall. We know that these measures had the desired effect due to the trajectory of the US that put the controls in late. We know that these measures will work due to Italy and we know what will happen if we let up due to what happened during the spanish flu epidemic.

I know which data I would rather base my arguments on.

It is widely accepted that if an anecdote came from the bloke down the pub or a distant family member, it is has scientific standing and is incontrovertible.

 

[SaltIre]

True, but pneumococcal vaccines don't seem to prevent community/hospital-acquired pneumonia. They do, however, seem to improve outcomes. Guessing it's still far too early to say with Covid-19

Pneumococcal immunisation is aimed at preventing pneumonia caused by Streptococcus Pneumoniae. It will have absolutely no protective effect on other infective organisms causing pneumonia
Streptococcus pneumoniae - Wikipedia.

 

[SaltIre]

Just a point on pneumococcal Inoculations: these have been available since last autumn alongside the flu jab for those who qualify, so most folks over 65 should have had the one off shot.

They have been available for years. I got mine in 2008 aged 47. They are routinely given to those whose spleens are removed, although I still have mine so can still vent it.
The rules about funding pnemococcal immunisation may have changed recently.

 

[V1701]

I live in a marina with lots of liveaboards so we're already here and on board. Nobody is going sailing, a bit of pottering about the marina in a little sailing dinghy of which I've seen one or two or a canoe or something is accepted...

 

[SaltIre]

Absolutely. Have you noticed that the BBC is now careful to report "deaths with coronavirus" rather than "deaths from coronavirus"?

That's how the Scottish Government is announcing them so it is difficult for journalists to do otherwise. They need to avoid broadcasting fake news...

 

[dom]

Pneumococcal immunisation is aimed at preventing pneumonia caused by Streptococcus Pneumoniae. It will have absolutely no protective effect on other infective organisms causing pneumonia
Streptococcus pneumoniae - Wikipedia.

That's not so. It doesn't prevent other such infections but studies suggest that vaccinated patients have a 30-40% lower rate of death or ICU admission compared with unvaccinated patients.

Which is why such vaccines are routinely recommended for those at risk of pneumonia.

 

[SaltIre]

Although police have been rolling up at the allotments where a friend of mine has one and shouting through the fence at anyone they see sitting down. The allotment holders are therefore putting a new fence up to block the view.

They should put a row of pees below the fence.

 

[SaltIre]

That's not so. It doesn't prevent other such infections but studies suggest that vaccinated patients have a 30-40% lower rate of death or ICU admission compared with unvaccinated patients.

Which is why such vaccines are routinely recommended for those at risk of pneumonia.

Could you post a link to support that please? Thanks.
I'm interested in how immunisation against one organism could prevent infection with another.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Consider that if some one goes in with one infection but they acquire another which they could have been vaccinated against. So by getting rid of the exaccerbation factor then you also lower the rate of death from another disease because it's easier to care for and treat said people and they're less likely to need a ventilator.

It's like telling people to stop smoking to lower the rate of dying early from say COPD that was caused by working down the pits for 30 years.

 

[SaltIre]

Consider that if some one goes in with one infection but they acquire another which they could have been vaccinated against. So by getting rid of the exaccerbation factor then you also lower the rate of death from another disease because it's easier to care for and treat said people and they're less likely to need a ventilator.

It's like telling people to stop smoking to lower the rate of dying early from say COPD that was caused by working down the pits for 30 years.

A link would be appreciated.
It's the same disease - but with a different infective organism.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Hang on you're questioning that someone who goes in with Coronavirus and catches Pneumonia in the hospital is just as likely to die as if they didn't catch pneumonia?

Here's the link that more death is caused by having more infections...

First study identifies risk factors associated with death in adults hospitalized with new coronavirus disease in Wuhan

Edit

I feel we should make the distinction that when we say Coronavirus or Covid-19 we are referring to the Covid-19 viral pneumonia whereas with Pneumonia we are referring to the Bacterial strain. It's obvious that the vaccine isn't going to cure Covid-19 but it will stave off other potential complications like catching bacterial pneumonia at the same time.

 

[cherod]

It is widely accepted that if an anecdote came from the bloke down the pub or a distant family member, it is has scientific standing and is incontrovertible.

you can believe whatever you like .

 

[cherod]

The evidence provided by the WHO and the NHS is far better quality that your own anecdotal evidence that has been subject to no controls, no sampling requirements and cannot be extrapolated. With the data from the WHO and the NHS we can see that if we stick to the measures we have in place then the infection rates will begin to fall. We know that these measures had the desired effect due to the trajectory of the US that put the controls in late. We know that these measures will work due to Italy and we know what will happen if we let up due to what happened during the spanish flu epidemic.

I know which data I would rather base my arguments on.

so far has not been subject to any missquoting , any twisting or any extrapolation , just strait from the horses mouth ,, until you chipped in .

 

[SaltIre]

Hang on you're questioning that someone who goes in with Coronavirus and catches Pneumonia in the hospital is just as likely to die as if they didn't catch pneumonia?

Thanks for the link. That's not what I was asking.
I was asking whether immunisation against Strep Pneumoniae, one of the bugs that causes pneumonia, conferred protection against other bugs that cause pneumonia. You said it did.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Assuming all evidence is absolutely truthful and accurate then.

You have a sample size of 50 on a case by case (anecdotal / case study evidence) the NHS has a sample size of 10000+ the WHO have a sample size of over 500,000 and standardized cases that can be generalized. With trained statisticians behind them.

Also there has been no misquoting from myself without directly targeting it to yourself. This is how understanding works. I say something just off axis, you clarify and correct. Apologies if you thought I was being malicious this certainly isn't intentional.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Thanks for the link. That's not what I was asking.
I was asking whether immunisation against Strep Pneumoniae, one of the bugs that causes pneumonia, conferred protection against other bugs that cause pneumonia. You said it did.

Consider that if some one goes in with one infection but they acquire another which they could have been vaccinated against. So by getting rid of the exaccerbation factor then you also lower the rate of death from another disease because it's easier to care for and treat said people and they're less likely to need a ventilator.

It's like telling people to stop smoking to lower the rate of dying early from say COPD that was caused by working down the pits for 30 years.

Sorry that's not quite correct. I've highlighted the difference. Apologies for the miscommunication. There are lots of double meanings all over the place hence I did attempt to clear up and clarify.