lw395
Well-Known Member
As an amateur, you are not carrying passengers for reward, so you are exempt from 'coding' your vessel to MCA standards. It's a big difference.
Liquid Vortex trial starts
- Thread starter jimi
- Start date
As an amateur, you are not carrying passengers for reward, so you are exempt from 'coding' your vessel to MCA standards. It's a big difference.
alant
Well-Known Member
alant
Well-Known Member
Torch.
Pye_End
Well-Known Member
Coming along that coast is pretty easy in the dark. Leave the power station well to port (stands out for miles), and then Folkstone/Dover also stand out. Lack of light might have been annoying, but not critical in this instance.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I wasn't there, so I don't know what it was like.
Visibility?
Stars? Moon?
If you have a reference to steer by it's a lot better than the compass on a minute by minute basis.
But the skipper can find it useful to be able to give instructions referred to the compass, or be able to ask 'what course are we making?'.
Using a torch to read the compass needs an extra hand....
A1Sailor
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...unless you put it on your head.
I find a head-torch extremely useful - £5 from your local B&Q Chandlery.
Plomong
Well-Known Member
That and the American site's indication that they "left 2 hours late" confirms to me that the accident did not happen, it was caused.
The final words of the RNLI report are interesting: "at 4:40 pm the Dungeness boat returned to station". Laconic. Must have been quite a ride down from Ramsgate, round South Foreland and on down past Folkestone !!!
Plomong
rotrax
Well-Known Member
My point exactly. alant apparently believes that similar responsibilities exist for a private yacht skipper and a cruise liner skipper. Some of course overlap, and rightly so. I believe that I sail within the rules and will carry on as before. I dont think I have a problem.
chartnavigator
Well-Known Member
A written route plan is a necessary , (even obligatory), requirement, esp. when dicing with predicted storm force conditions.
Logging your intended passage with the CG beforehand might be a bit belt and braces but there is no harm at all in letting someone shoreside know where you are heading and what your plan b / c is also.
There are far too many 'yachties' out there who don't really know where they are till they get there. Not that that applies to the skipper in question. By most accounts he was experienced and well qualified but seems to have been a little TOO confident in his ability to 'push the weather window'. It's not his experience or ability but his 'judgment' which is being called into question and there but for the grace of God go you or I.
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johndove
Well-Known Member
That's where out taxes go!
Yes I feel they were very foolish on that trip!
JM lost his school, CS lost his YM! What is gained or will in this court case!
Guess 2 lessons learned here, don't send a pan pan! And carry a spare compass bulb!!
Let's hope the other charges are dropped!
Yes I feel they were very foolish on that trip!
JM lost his school, CS lost his YM! What is gained or will in this court case!
Guess 2 lessons learned here, don't send a pan pan! And carry a spare compass bulb!!
Let's hope the other charges are dropped!
jimi
Well-Known Member
I suggest you read the Dungeness RNLI report before making such crass statements. That report indicates that there was significant risk to life and the downplaying of the situation post event was spin by Liquid Vortex. In context with the previous events by the same company, it would indicate that its a good thing that this company has ceased operating before deaths occur. Have a look around and ask how many other sailing schools have had as many serious incidents in such a short time.
A1Sailor
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[70521]
Well-Known Member
Have you considered the context of why the charges were brought? The sailing school had been involved in a number of rescues and at least two MAIB investigations in the last few years. Perhaps the management culture was as "sloppy" as the reporting and it is quite right for the firm to go under before somebody died? The skipper lost his qualification but he knew that it could be removed when he achieved it and he can still sail, nothing stops that. Is that such a big price to pay?
While in time all charges may be dropped, that is for the court to decide, I am quite sure the each and every sailing school is following the case with interest and will review the way they operate.
I think the skipper was quite correct to send a PAN PAN, I know I would given the situation. As for carrying a spare bulb, I can't see them being able to fit it given the conditions.
All sport is risky, I have lost good friends both in climbing accidents and at sea, the trick it to balance the risks to go or not go, but as I kept telling my mum - I am at more risk driving to the mountain before climbing it!
alant
Well-Known Member
There are responsibilities that exist for any skipper, commercial or leisure.
When the s.hit hits the fan, there is nowhere to hide.
alant
Well-Known Member
Sailing School 'management', varies considerably.
I have worked for some, where the 'book of rules' is a mandatory requirement to be read & signed off, with details of where your going/what your doing/in depth crew details/resume's/calls daily to monitor progress. Others, just give you a boat + load of people & you bring 'em back 5 days later, without any questions about your itinerary/problems over the period you were away.
At the end of the day, the instructor/skipper makes the decision & is responsible.
Talulah
Well-Known Member
I suspect the Jury must be getting a bit worried about going back to work.
The case was originally scheduled for 5 days. We still have the defendants to be sworn in and give their evidence. I wouldn't be surprised if this ran into a third week.
The case was originally scheduled for 5 days. We still have the defendants to be sworn in and give their evidence. I wouldn't be surprised if this ran into a third week.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Going on so long suggests that either it is all more complex than appears on the surface - or it is a monumental waste of the court's time!
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Having sat on a Jury once I, as an engineer, felt that the process could be much improved. However, I understand that in the legal profession time is money; I rest my case.
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mikefleetwood
Well-Known Member
Probably both!
A1Sailor
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Haven't sat on a jury, but have appeared in court a few times to give evidence. On one occasion I travelled from Gosport to Glasgow, staying overnight at my parents. Was asked in the waiting room "Hey Mister; are yoo a Polis?" I was in the Navy so had shiny shoes..!
I then went to claim my travelling expenses, to be told that I was entitled to 2 days subsistence as well. I'd been away from my place of residence for 48hours.
Justice does seem monumentally expensive...