Linssen Boats - good or bad?

[SimonX]

Anybody any experience of Linssen boats?
My brother in law over in Netherlands has given me some details of a boat that is being sold off as part of the assets of a bankrupt company. I dont have a lot of info at the moment apart from a spec sheet in Dutch which i translated using Google. It is a 2006 Linssen Grand Sturdy 410 AC Twin,12.30 m x 4.20 m, draft 1.05 m, has a folding foremast which takes airdraft to 3.1m
It has two Volvo Penta engines which are quoted at 240HP but its contradictory as to whether this is each or total, Vetus bow and stern thrusters
As far as I can see, this one for sale in German is very similar https://uk.boats.com/power-boats/2005-linssen-grand-sturdy-410-ac-twinn-10038591/
I am looking at this in comparison to the Broom 38/42s we have been looking at previously.
Obviously the biggest difference is the steel hull and I have absolute no experience with this and what maintenance is like compared to fibreglass but you see a heck of a lot of these in the Netherlands
The other downsides I can see are the internal helm which takes up a lot of space and the fact the fore cabin is bunks (at least the one in Germany is, just says double in the spec for the Dutch one)
My gut feeling is not to pursue this, particularly with all the life stuff going on atm (my wife is currently in hospital getting a Pacemmaker) but the price (140,000 Euro excluding VAT) makes it attractive. I am told that I could buy excluding VAT to export to UK and pay here or pay VAT and keep in Netherlands (need to check this). My wife and her sister have apparently spoken before about some sort of shared ownership before (news to me!) as they are quite keen on boating but are still working full time

 

[PaulRainbow]

240Hp total. It's a displacement hull, so that's more than enough. No direct experience, but they are considered to be very good quality. We had a fleet of about 14 Linssen's here last year, having crossed over from the Netherlands, they do look nice.

 

[petem]

If it's a disposal sale, I'd be worried about a lack of maintenance. For example, have the anodes been changed as required?

 

[SimonX]

If it's a disposal sale, I'd be worried about a lack of maintenance. For example, have the anodes been changed as required?

This is the sort of thing I need my BiL to find out - what opportunity to survey and suchlike. I guess with a steel hull there's be some sort of wall thickness measurement needed? He and SiL are going to look at it at the weekend and find out more.

 

[benjenbav]

Another point is RCD compliance. It probably won’t comply with the latest version of RCD (having been designed and built before that was even a twinkling in the legislators’ eyes) which - owing to the way UK has imported this compliance regime into UK law - makes it troublesome to import the boat to UK (if that’s what you want to do).

If you look there are lots of hotly contested threads on here on this topic. Suffice to say that there are issues to be overcome and that poster @Tranona is the guru on this subject.

 

[CJ13]

Linssen make good quality boats. The example you’re looking at is 20 years old. Steel boats rust from the inside. I would want to lift all the floor boards before making an offer.
If you move forward get a good surveyor (Dutch surveyors are generally excellent) who will measure both plate thickness and paint thickness.

 

[Tranona]

Well regarded boats, but as said displacement as aimed at European inland waterways. some imported into the UK mainly for use on the Thames.

As in post#5 you may well find it impossible to import into the UK as the law that came into being after Brexit makes it clear that imports have to comply with the latest RCD/RCR which date from 2013 introduction and 2017 implementation. A 2006 boat will not comply easily, particularly the engines which unless replacements post 2013 will not meet the latest emissions standards.

Nice idea if you like that sort of boat but don't waste any time on it.

 

[Little Ricky]

You know that feeling when you're driving your crappy, diesel, underpowered car and you're stuck behind a 90 year old coming home from church doing 15 mph in a 50 zone, how you wish you had the power to overtake her, well I always think whether its cars or boats it's better to have more power and not use it, than have very little power and wish you sometimes had access to more. Your Linssen looks like its for the river rather than the swell of the ocean.

 

[SimonX]

You know that feeling when you're driving your crappy, diesel, underpowered car and you're stuck behind a 90 year old coming home from church doing 15 mph in a 50 zone, how you wish you had the power to overtake her, well I always think whether its cars or boats it's better to have more power and not use it, than have very little power and wish you sometimes had access to more. Your Linssen looks like its for the river rather than the swell of the ocean.

It’s a river/canal/coastal boat we are after. Comfort over speed. Just sold the a Bayliner which was the opposite

 

[Little Ricky]

It’s a river/canal/coastal boat we are after. Comfort over speed. Just sold the a Bayliner which was the opposite

Ah, well you should have said. Sure buy it then, why not.

 

[Greg2]

As already said, Linssen build quality boats and the Grand Sturdy is a nice boat.

We spent time looking at steel boats in Holland and whilst we generally liked what we saw they can sometimes feel not quite as comfortable as the Brooms you have been looking at but it varies between makes. They are pure displacement hulls so will never go beyond hull speed, which isn’t a problem at all on inland waterways and not really an issue at sea if your mindset is that passages will take time but they will roll a bit in a beam sea.

Corrosion from the inside has been mentioned and that was a real concern for us because you simply can’t get to all areas of the inside of the hull to check for rust. Modern paints are very good and when used in fresh water external rust can be minimal or non-existent but when used in salt water that can change notably.

The RCD issue may mean it is a non-starter though.
.

 

[aerobat]

Be careful and keep eyes open when buying a boat from former eastern germany . Virtually all boats i inspected there tended to be overprized and mostly with hidden surprizes . That said müritz is a sweet spot for boating , i live around three hours away from there by car. If you need help - lets say talk with the seller in german , let me know .

 

[SimonX]

As already said, Linssen build quality boats and the Grand Sturdy is a nice boat.

We spent time looking at steel boats in Holland and whilst we generally liked what we saw they can sometimes feel not quite as comfortable as the Brooms you have been looking at but it varies between makes. They are pure displacement hulls so will never go beyond hull speed, which isn’t a problem at all on inland waterways and not really an issue at sea if your mindset is that passages will take time but they will roll a bit in a beam sea.

Corrosion from the inside has been mentioned and that was a real concern for us because you simply can’t get to all areas of the inside of the hull to check for rust. Modern paints are very good and when used in fresh water external rust can be minimal or non-existent but when used in salt water that can change notably.

The RCD issue may mean it is a non-starter though.
.

Ive had a look at some others online and there certainly are some nice ones out there even if this one isn't suitable. If it has the bunks its a non-starter.
The RCD thing isn't a problem if we keep it in the Netherlands or elsewhere in Europe. My wife has clearly talked to her sister a lot more about this than she has to me ( they are twins and seem to communicate telepathically! ). She was making noises at Christmas about spending more time there if she gives up the shop here which we have talked about.

 

[SimonX]

Be careful and keep eyes open when buying a boat from former eastern germany . Virtually all boats i inspected there tended to be overprized and mostly with hidden surprizes . That said müritz is a sweet spot for boating , i live around three hours away from there by car. If you need help - lets say talk with the seller in german , let me know .

The boat isn't in Germany, its in Netherlands, the link to the German one was just to show a similar one

 

[Tranona]

Ive had a look at some others online and there certainly are some nice ones out there even if this one isn't suitable. If it has the bunks its a non-starter.
The RCD thing isn't a problem if we keep it in the Netherlands or elsewhere in Europe. My wife has clearly talked to her sister a lot more about this than she has to me ( they are twins and seem to communicate telepathically! ). She was making noises at Christmas about spending more time there if she gives up the shop here which we have talked about.

If you plan to keep it permanently in the EU it makes sense to buy an EU VAT paid boat. If you do buy this one it will be the seller's responsibility to apply Dutch VAT on your purchase price. Only downside is that if you are UK resident you cannot bring it into the UK, even for a day without formally importing it. However you will probably be able as a non EU resident to buy it without VAT but will then be subject to the Temporary Admission rules in the EU which limit stays to 18 months, although this can be renewed by leaving the EU and re-entering. You of course if a UK citizen will be limited to the Schengen 90/180 rule. If you go down this route you may find it difficult to sell the boat in the future as a non VAT paid boat.

 

[Alicatt]

Linssen make some very nice boats and are much desired in both The Netherlands and Belgium. From the other Grand Sturdy 410AC I have seen all have had a single engine and bunk beds in the fore cabin. They are used on coastal waters too.

Twin engines in a inland waterway boat here is a bit unusual, it can make it very difficult to come alongside the canal banks to moor, they are quite shallow at the sides and the propellor will touch before you come alongside, also you are burning twice the diesel than you really need to.
Having a twin engined boat with the engines producing 145hp each, at in gear idle my boat does 8.2km/h with both engines, on 1 engine she does 7.8km/h, I can break the majority of the speed limits at 1000rpm, at 900rpm the boat does 15km/h and as she is semi displacement she will do around 31km/h or about 17knots.

 

[SimonX]

If you plan to keep it permanently in the EU it makes sense to buy an EU VAT paid boat. If you do buy this one it will be the seller's responsibility to apply Dutch VAT on your purchase price. Only downside is that if you are UK resident you cannot bring it into the UK, even for a day without formally importing it. However you will probably be able as a non EU resident to buy it without VAT but will then be subject to the Temporary Admission rules in the EU which limit stays to 18 months, although this can be renewed by leaving the EU and re-entering. You of course if a UK citizen will be limited to the Schengen 90/180 rule. If you go down this route you may find it difficult to sell the boat in the future as a non VAT paid boat.

We have various ways of mitigation things there. My wife and I both have EU passports ( me Irish, her Dutch) so the 90/180 doesn’t apply.
If we buy the boat as share with Sister and Brother in law, who are both Dutch residents, we can keep it Dutch registered and it can come to U.K. under TA.
We are no looking to avoid VAT, just avoid paying twice.
As I said, my gut feeling is this particular one isn’t going to be suitable but the boat type may be.
The buying U.K. vs buying EU bit has changed with my wife’s thoughts on our future in U.K. The main thing tying us to where we live is her antique shop but it has has never been a huge earner and has become less so in the past year or so. Access to the NHS has also been a consideration.

 

[Tranona]

We have various ways of mitigation things there. My wife and I both have EU passports ( me Irish, her Dutch) so the 90/180 doesn’t apply.
If we buy the boat as share with Sister and Brother in law, who are both Dutch residents, we can keep it Dutch registered and it can come to U.K. under TA.
We are no looking to avoid VAT, just avoid paying twice.
As I said, my gut feeling is this particular one isn’t going to be suitable but the boat type may be.
The buying U.K. vs buying EU bit has changed with my wife’s thoughts on our future in U.K. The main thing tying us to where we live is her antique shop but it has has never been a huge earner and has become less so in the past year or so. Access to the NHS has also been a consideration.

Yes, life gets complicated and you are lucky to have more options than most. However not sure you will be able to bring the boat into the UK unless it is fully owned by a non UK resident, and then only they can use it while it is here. Works the other way as well. If you have a UK VAT paid boat and take it into the EU under TA you have to own it 100% and your Dutch relations will not be able to use it.

 

[PCUK]

Very good boats. Have a surveyor do a hull thickness test. It should be no more than 0.1mm under factory spec'. My home built De-Groot achieved this thickness after 27 years.

 

[Skipper Felice]

I love Linssen Yachts
In March 2024 I had the pleasure to charter a brand new Linssen 45 Sedan (60 engine hours) for a pleasure trip for 3 weeks around the Netherlands.
( Linssen 45 SL Sedan - Femke )
Together with my family we had one of our best sailing trips along the chanels of the Netherlands and the Ijselmeer to visit Amsterdam.

The "Femke" was a brand new yacht from the well known Linssen brand. With two 110 PS engines, shaft drive, all modern nautical equipement and very easy to handle. The quality of the boat is outstanding: All technical equipement is reliable, modern nautical quality and the interior good and practical for daily use. The ship was very practical to handle and well equiped for 4 people. And in March 2024 we loved the excellent heating / aircon system ... as weather was not always nice.
From my experience with the 3 weeks of sailing an outstanding Linssen 45 I would recomend this brand to all owners. I can not speak about the usage of a Linssen for offshore or open sea travel - but I think she would also perform well in this waters.