Lightweight tender: recommendations?

[Sticky Fingers]

I''m going to need a new tender and o/b. I'm a lifetime sufferer of back trouble so I need to buy as lightweight as possible, so that handling the tender and o/b in and out of lockers, and engine fitting once in the water, as easy as poss.

Appreciate that may not square with robustness and long life. Or does it. Wondered what people might recommend that has the following:

Tender
Carry 4 people safely
Pack down small
Weight <15kg (tender)
Use for pottering ashore, river exploring etc.
Speed not a major issue

Engine
Adequate to power the tender with 4 people
Easy starting and reliability paramount
Weight <15kg (engine with full tank)
Pref air cooled for simplicity (or is that misguided?)
No need for charging
Standard shaft length (I assume)

Thoughts?

 

[Tranona]

You are going to struggle achieving that - particularly the weight of the dinghy to take 4 people in one go. The nearest you will get is a 3D - I have a 2.5m roundtail version, but you will need a 2.7m hard transom version.

Same with the engine. None are that light except possibly an old suzuki 2hp. The only air cooled engine is the Honda which is heavier than that, a noisy beast and of the marmite category.

TBH you will not be able to achieve what you want. If you really are going to carry 4 people and use it a lot then you need to buy the right gear for the job. The 3D types are unlikely to stand up to harder use - I bought one because I rarely use it and mostly there is just me.

If I were buying to that set of requirements I would be going for something like a Lodestar or a top of the range Zodiac with a 3.5hp 4 stroke - plus a pair of davits! Buying minimalist would not achieve your objectives anyway and you just have to accept if you want a usable tender you have to accept some big compromises.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Um. Weight is a problem. I don't fancy davits.

Just looked at Suzuki online, they have a 2.5hp 4 stroke that weighs 13Kg, it's water cooled, would have thought that made it heavier...The next size up is 4hp and 24kg, loads more weight for only a modest 1.5hp power increase.
https://www.suzuki-marine.co.uk/marine/marine/df25/

3D tenders look good weight wise, the 2.7m hard transom "Superlight" version weighs < 16kg. Do you think that thy are not really up to the job? It's not going to get hard use / abuse.

 

[dunedin]

We went round this debate but also decided a lightweight tender wouldn't be suitable for substantial use.

We fitted Plastimo davits last year. Definitely the right decision for us, as used extensively and transformed the dinghy experience (as I too struggled lifting dinghy in and out of a locker). Davits are very neat and, importantly for us, removable. So when not needed, and all winter, the davits are stowed away and blanking covers over the holes. Perfect

 

[[3889]]

I have the heaver grade 250, hard transom 3D tender (the grey coloured kinglite as opposed to the black superlight) and it is OK for pontoon use but not for dragging up beaches etc. My dog's claw punctured the floor which is not something I'd ever imagine happening with my previous Avon Redstart. I agree with Tranona that no dink will meet all your requirements. I'm downgrading my 3.5hp Tohatsu to the 2.5 Suzi because of the weight issue. Note the Max pax for the 270 is 3.5, and I think that's a little optimistic; I'm not overly comfortable with 3 aboard my 250 in any sort of a seaway.

 

[prv]

Just looked at Suzuki online, they have a 2.5hp 4 stroke that weighs 13Kg, it's water cooled, would have thought that made it heavier...

Why would water-cooling be heavier? I'd expect it to be lighter, as there's no need for cooling fins etc. The amount of extra aluminium to extend a gearbox aftwards into an impeller housing can only be a few grams.

My 2.2hp 2-stroke is (from memory) 12kg with a full tank. I can carry it upright in front of me with one hand round the leg. You'd need to dodge a few hoops to get a new one now though.

One idea that might help a bad back is fitting the engine to the dinghy on deck, before you winch it into the water on a spinnaker halyard. This is what I always do now, it's far easier than trying to lower the engine (even my light one) from the cockpit rail down into the dinghy at the waterline.

Pete

 

[BelleSerene]

Another vote for 3D tenders. I covet one having seen and used a friend's. They're very light and very compact to stow, yet apparently robust - indeed they come with two covers to protect the fabric from the elements/ rough pontoons. I would go for the 'twin Vib' model to replace my Zodiac, myself.

Re the outboard, YM did a review of 2.5hp (so the lightest) ones in early 2013. http://www.mby.com/general/ultimate-2-5hp-outboard-test-40258

I replaced my air-cooled and consequently very noisy Honda 2.3 (it's on the 5m contour off Herm if you want it) with a Suzuki. It's fussy about being stored on the correct side - stupidly, on the handle side - but I think I read that Suzuki have redesigned it since so that newer models don't flood if you store them on the wrong side.

I sympathise, having had four operations on my spine in 2015 following sciatica and having been left in shall I say a suboptimal state. I still live in a lumbar brace. But I can sail: navigare necesse est. Good luck!

 

[cmedsailor]

If you can find a good Johnson 3,5 hp two stroke engine that will be a very good choice. I bought one 1-2 years ago to replace a horrible, weak and noisy Honda 2hp. The Johnson has the same weight but is much more powerful (not enough to plane a Hondawave 2.4 tender though) and much quieter.
I think the Bombard AX3 is a light tender. A friend of mine had one some years ago and I remember how easy was to lift it, in comparison to other similar size tenders.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

...One idea that might help a bad back is fitting the engine to the dinghy on deck, before you winch it into the water on a spinnaker halyard. This is what I always do now, it's far easier than trying to lower the engine (even my light one) from the cockpit rail down into the dinghy at the waterline.

Pete

That's interesting. Presume you use a 3-point or 4-point harness to hook the tender onto the halyard? I've got electric winches so recovery would be easy enough too. This could be a great idea if I can manage to engineer it, and it means I'd be less dependent on saving weight at all costs, so could maybe get a better tender and more powerful o/b.

 

[Cspirit]

I''m going to need a new tender and o/b. I'm a lifetime sufferer of back trouble so I need to buy as lightweight as possible, so that handling the tender and o/b in and out of lockers, and engine fitting once in the water, as easy as poss.

Appreciate that may not square with robustness and long life. Or does it. Wondered what people might recommend that has the following:

Tender
Carry 4 people safely
Pack down small
Weight <15kg (tender)
Use for pottering ashore, river exploring etc.
Speed not a major issue

Engine
Adequate to power the tender with 4 people
Easy starting and reliability paramount
Weight <15kg (engine with full tank)
Pref air cooled for simplicity (or is that misguided?)
No need for charging
Standard shaft length (I assume)

Thoughts?

I had a 3D 250 tender. Its certainly light, rows OK and is OK under power - not great, just OK. it will carry 4, just. However, after two years use I threw it away. The rowlocks had become detached and were impossible to re glue, the towing eyes also gave way and I had to buy and fit new ones. In the end I replaced it with a heavier inflatable which is much more user friendly and, I hope, durable.

 

[RichardS]

It depends how much you want to spend .... but my parameters were exactly the same as yours and, after a lot of searching, settled for a Highfield Ultralite 260 and a Suzuki DF2.5

The dinghy and the engine are both light enough for SWMBO to lift separately and the Hypalon construction should last years although PVC is available as well. The engine is quiet and economical. We are usually carrying 4 adults without any problem.

I'm delighted with the combination .... search online for weights and prices.

However, pack down small is probably not quite the same as my thinking.

Richard

 

[Scillypete]

Just a thought . . . . if there's three other people onboard could you not save your back and get them to do the lifting?

on the other hand for those occasions when it is just yourself aboard you may find a little plastimo 180 or similar sufficient if stowage space allows carrying the extra little dink

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I had a 3D 250 tender. Its certainly light, rows OK and is OK under power - not great, just OK. it will carry 4, just. However, after two years use I threw it away. The rowlocks had become detached and were impossible to re glue, the towing eyes also gave way and I had to buy and fit new ones. In the end I replaced it with a heavier inflatable which is much more user friendly and, I hope, durable.

Was this due to UV degradation?

 

[Tranona]

3D tenders look good weight wise, the 2.7m hard transom "Superlight" version weighs < 16kg. Do you think that thy are not really up to the job? It's not going to get hard use / abuse.

Time will tell. There have been several threads on the subject, mostly positive - but from light users like myself. However they have only been around for 4 years or so and not sure they have sold here in vast numbers, when for little more than half the price you can get a reasonable quality PVC dink.

Davits may be a bit OTT, but a single arm hoist to handle the engine and lifting the dinghy from the foredeck with the spinnaker halyard is a viable alternative. You have more than enough room in that vast locker to stow a conventional inflatable, or when on short passage upside down on the foredeck.

 

[prv]

That's interesting. Presume you use a 3-point or 4-point harness to hook the tender onto the halyard? I've got electric winches so recovery would be easy enough too. This could be a great idea if I can manage to engineer it, and it means I'd be less dependent on saving weight at all costs, so could maybe get a better tender and more powerful o/b.

I made a three-legged bridle out of light line. Two short ones connect to points either side of the transom, one long one hooks onto the bow ring. I see-sawed the dinghy and outboard over a plank on my patio to find the balance point, it's quite far aft and if you make the three legs equal in length it will hang stern-down.

You still need to lift the tender out of the locker and manhandle it up to the foredeck, so if weight is a problem for you then this isn't a complete solution.

Pete

 

[gordmac]

In my experience the cheap PVC inflatables with slatted floor are a lot better than you might expect them to be.

 

[RupertW]

On the engine side, I wonder why (apart from expense) you have discounted electric outboards. Our Torqueedo 1003 can happily push a 75kg Rib with 6 people and luggage through an anchorage - at tootling speeds but I don't like to create a wash in an anchorage anyway so wouldn't be going any faster.

We probably charge it via mains at the beginning or end of the season but otherwise it get's charged from the main boat's batteries when the main engine is on. It's 14kg but the heaviest part of the 3 detachable bits is 9kg so it's a one handed transfer or each part to and from the dinghy to be snapped back together.

Best thing we've ever bought for reliability and ease of starting and needs no knack or luck to effort to start it, just turn a knob. But if money had been an issue that year it would have been hard to justify.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I made a three-legged bridle out of light line. Two short ones connect to points either side of the transom, one long one hooks onto the bow ring. I see-sawed the dinghy and outboard over a plank on my patio to find the balance point, it's quite far aft and if you make the three legs equal in length it will hang stern-down.

You still need to lift the tender out of the locker and manhandle it up to the foredeck, so if weight is a problem for you then this isn't a complete solution.

Pete

Thanks. Bridle makes sense.

Getting it out of the locker isn't such an issue. I can lift vertically OK. It's the awkward handling over the side / stern / bathing platform that is more of an issue. That and dropping the o/b o/b

 

[Sticky Fingers]

On the engine side, I wonder why (apart from expense) you have discounted electric outboards. Our Torqueedo 1003 can happily push a 75kg Rib with 6 people and luggage through an anchorage - at tootling speeds but I don't like to create a wash in an anchorage anyway so wouldn't be going any faster.

We probably charge it via mains at the beginning or end of the season but otherwise it get's charged from the main boat's batteries when the main engine is on. It's 14kg but the heaviest part of the 3 detachable bits is 9kg so it's a one handed transfer or each part to and from the dinghy to be snapped back together.

Best thing we've ever bought for reliability and ease of starting and needs no knack or luck to effort to start it, just turn a knob. But if money had been an issue that year it would have been hard to justify.

ooh, interesting idea. What kind of range do you get?

 

[doug748]

Weaver davits always impress me:

https://www.weaverindustries.com/

The boat is ready for use at all times and it is a doddle to pull inboard. Provided the water is reasonably flat you can leave the boat attached whilst you clip on the outboard. Means you can cater for a heavier dinghy, the fittings are unobtrusive and you can still hoist the tender aboard on the foredeck, for longer term storage, if you want. Lightweight tenders are very lively on the water and can spook novice visitors.
A tender on the transom don't look too pretty but is very practical.

Bad back wise, I would avoid ever putting it in a locker - on the deck or the davits for me.