Light wind race: motoring to start?

[davidaprice]

This evening we're entered in the Helsinki-Tallinn Race: 41 miles through the dark along ferry lines and across shipping lines, with 175 other yachts, in a handicapped pursuit format.

Our start is at 19:34. The latest forecast is: at 21:00 it will be 0m/s from WSW, becoming by 03:00 0m/s from N. So possibly very light winds.

Boats start, slowest first, in small groups (6 with my handicap) and the rest are asked to stay about half a mile away until their start is imminent.

So my question: if we have to use the motor to get over to the start line, how long before the start do we have to switch it off, to avoid a penalty? Presumably we can't switch it off as we cross the line, everyone would do that to get a boost in every race.

 

[BAtoo]

By the 5 minute gun is normal rules here.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

You need to read the Notice of Race / Sailing Instructions for your particular event to obtain the definitive answer.

 

[davidaprice]

You need to read the Notice of Race / Sailing Instructions for your particular event to obtain the definitive answer.

I did: they don't mention it. And we don't have the usual five minute gun, as the preceding (slightly slower) group is starting 4 minutes before us; they'll raise our 'class flag' at 3 minutes before, then drop it at the start.

Oh well, if I hear nothing else, switching off the engine five minutes before our start sounds fair.

 

[wotayottie]

By the 5 minute gun is normal rules here.

4 mins generally in the UK but depends on the sailing instructions for the race

 

[awol]

The norm is you are racing from the hoisting of your preparatory signal - usually P - but I infer that only your class flag is being shown for your start. You will be safe, I imagine, if your engine is disengaged when your class flag is raised.
Local rules sometimes allow the use of engines to get to the start provided a 720deg turn is carried out after switch off.

If your forecast is right, I wouldn't worry. There will be 175 yachts all piled up on the start line waiting for wind and the slow boats get the benefit. Don't forget that anchoring is allowed under RRS.

 

[DJE]

I have a copy of the Racing Rules for Sailing (2009 - 2012) here. I can't say that I am familiar with every detail and they may have been amended by the sailing instructions or notice of race (which is almost certainly the case for a pursuit race), but as far as I can see this is what they say:-

A boat is racing from her preparatory signal until she finishes and clears the finishing line and marks or retires, or until the race committee signals a gernal recall, postponement or abandonment.

Rule 26 Starting Races
Preparatory; Flag P, I, Z ,Z & I ,or black flag; 1 Sound; 4 minutes before start.

Have another good look at the sailing instructions and notice of race and see what they say about your preparatory signal.

 

[GruffT]

What he said.

No engine when you are racing (rrs42.1) and you are racing from your preparatory signal (definition of racing), which is denoted by raising of p,i or z flag. This is at 4 mins in a 5,4,1,go sequence.

All unless modified by NOR or SIs.

 

[Lakesailor]

http://www.helsinkitallinnarace.fi/...Tallinn_Race_2012_Sailing_Instructions(2).pdf

 

[snowleopard]

You need to read the Notice of Race / Sailing Instructions for your particular event to obtain the definitive answer.

Precisely. I'm taking part in a similar race tomorrow and the sailing instructions contain these items:

"Entrants are actively encouraged to use their engines when they deem it to be good seamanship for their particular boat and crew so to do. It is left to the integrity of each entrant not to use their engines for advantage."

"Boats starting are encouraged to have their engines started, ready for immediate use until well clear of the start line."

They also say the race is to be run under colregs, not racing rules.

 

[st599]

By the 5 minute gun is normal rules here.

Racing Rules of Sailing only apply from the Preparatory Flag being displayed - so 4 mins prior to the start.

 

[st599]

I did: they don't mention it. And we don't have the usual five minute gun, as the preceding (slightly slower) group is starting 4 minutes before us; they'll raise our 'class flag' at 3 minutes before, then drop it at the start.

Oh well, if I hear nothing else, switching off the engine five minutes before our start sounds fair.

You don't need to have the engine switched off under RRS, just out of gear.

 

[Resolution]

Racing Rules of Sailing only apply from the Preparatory Flag being displayed - so 4 mins prior to the start.

Not quite right - AFAIK the RRS state that Part 2 (When boats meet) applies to boats in the vicinity of the start that intend to race or have just been racing. So Colregs are overruled by RRS while you are lurking around waiting for your start.
As others have said, you are actually racing from your preparatory signal, unless the SIs say otherwise.

 

[DJE]

Not quite right - AFAIK the RRS state that Part 2 (When boats meet) applies to boats in the vicinity of the start that intend to race or have just been racing. So Colregs are overruled by RRS while you are lurking around waiting for your start.
As others have said, you are actually racing from your preparatory signal, unless the SIs say otherwise.

True but the intro to part 2 says:- However, a boat not racing shall not be penalized for breaking one of these rules, except rule 23.1.

Rule 23.1 prohibits a boat not racing from interfering with one that is racing.

 

[GruffT]

Hehehe. Nothing like a RRS post to bring out pedants corner (and I am as guilty as the next man here!).

My suggestion when going racing is
1) to get and read this :
http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/RRS20092012with2010changes-[8222].pdf
2) perhaps aided by reading this :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rules-Pract...7888/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1345202092&sr=8-5
3) and if you're really bored this :
http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/CaseBook20092012updatedNov2011-[11669].pdf

or...

Accept a mid to low fleet result and just follow along doing what everyone else does.

That said, anyone skippering a yacht in a race really should do at least 1) & 2) above in my book...
www.sailx.com is great training to get RRS 10-18 locked into the mind!

 

[awol]

Could be all change with the RRS in January when the next version appears for 2013-2016.
Bring back "mast abeam"? ..... unlikely.

 

[DJE]

....just follow along doing what everyone else does.

Could be tricky, it's a night race!

 

[GruffT]

Could be tricky, it's a night race!

Seemples - find a white light and follow it (but don't hit it.... )

 

[BAtoo]

4 mins generally in the UK but depends on the sailing instructions for the race

I live and learn............

 

[davidaprice]

I got a clarification from the race organisers: in this type of race ("LYS pursuit") the warning and preparatory signals are combined, and shown 1 minute after the start of the previous group (which in our case started 4 minutes before us). And you obviously can't use the engine after that.

It was a wonderful race: about 6 knots of wind, crossing the Gulf of Finland in the middle of the night, all the stars out, Milky Way clearly visible and frequent shooting stars, yachts' navigation lights as far as the eye could see (some of which turned out to be container ships as we crossed the shipping lanes!). Then as dawn arrived drifting in to Tallinn under spinnakers.