Lifting Keels/Shallow Draft Boats: Advantages and Disadvantages - Your Experiences

[Mino]

On last my post here, I was gearing up to have a chat with Southerly as I had decided that a lifting keel was the way forward for me because I believed (due to reading up on them, a brief online exchange re. lifting keels with a forum member here last August, and watching a Southerly owner's YouTube blog) that it would expand my cruising and anchoring range.

Since then, ill health has brought life to an abrupt halt and I'm now confined to bricks and mortar and sailing from a (mostly) recumbent position on my sofa. It's also caused me to rethink whether to opt for a mobo as a liveaboard base instead of a sail boat as - when I finally return - I may not be as fit as before, and I'm now well entrenched into middle-age and really feeling it! Therefore, at the present time as I now contemplate various types, sizes and brands of yacht, one thing has remained at the forefront of my mind: draft. My personal experience has been limited to 1.55 meters and above, and this is where I seek the experiences and opinions of those who have had/have yachts with lifting keels, and/or catamarans and mobos with shallow drafts, and by that I mean 1.10 meters and under.

I'd really like to go into greater detail with owners here and learn from your experiences, so:

Does it really make much difference as to where you can go? Not much, a lot, somewhere in-between? How much (if any) of a difference have you personally found re. sea keeping and comfort at anchor compared to fixed keel yachts with deep draft/heavy displacement hulls? Where you able to find a better, safer, less windy spot at an anchorage when a storm hit, or is the chance of being able to do that so rare it's almost redundant? Does now/previously having a yacht with a deep draft and the stability that most would agree that extra draft gives actually seem like a more sensible, safer and comfortable choice for you, despite limiting where you can anchor?

When afloat again, I'm thinking of only exploring the UK, Northern Europe and the Med, so obviously your European experiences are mainly what I'm interested in. However, if you have a story about sailing with a low draft yacht elsewhere in the world that you think is relevant, feel free to add it.

 

[charles_reed]

I'm sorry to hear about your health problems and sincerely hope you get better and can go back to planning your cruising life.

Two of my 3 boats have been lifting keel and, in hindsight, unnecessarily so. It is easy to overstate the benefits of a lifting keel, however I wouldn't be without it.
First a digression - generally the lift keel covers a wide variety of different mechanisms:-
1. the ubiquitous centre-plate as fitted to lots of US designs, Barbicans, Huntress and some French boats, pivoting on a bolt forward of the centre line, usually through the ballast stub keel. Whilst this is the most economical way of getting shoal draft with reasonable lack of leeway, the plate frequently sticks and, if grounded, picks up mud and stones. A problem with which hoi polloi label all lift keel boats.
2. the dagger board - as in the Parker 27 and Southerleys - a aerodynamically shaped, weighted sliding board. Far better windward performance than #1. dries out flat and level.
3. the true lifting keel, with all the ballast in this, early examples such as the Anderson 22 and the Angus Primrose-designed Seals (22 & 26) suffered from the vestigial bulb below the hull when the keel was raised and whilst they performed extremely well would tilt a little if you tried drying them out on a hard, level bottom. Hunter Boats UK made a range of lift keel boats the 701 being an example but the epitome of the lift is probably the Parker 31/32.5 with a lifting wing-keel on which the boat sits safe from stones, boulders and other nasties.
With the larger lift keel boats the ballast weight demands something more powerful than a simple winch and was needs hydraulics (the prototype Parker 31 had 2500lbs of lead @ 1.81m centroid).

Many of the #2 and #3 categories would outperform contemporary peers, most notably the Anderson 22 and the two bigger Parkers. Unfortunately, for all their many virtues neither of the 2 marks of Southerly 105s (the only ones for which I have comparisons) perform terribly well being either severely or moderately handicapped by their rudder size resulting an a very modest sail area.

Lift keel boats of categories 2 & 3 were more expensive to produce than fixed keel counterparts, in the case of the Parker 32.5 the fixed-keel version was 20% less than its lift-keel sister. Despite hoi polloi mistaken belief about things sticking in keel-housings, they don't suffer from that problem, they are for sale infrequently, hold their price extraordinarily well, and don't stay for sale for very long. So they're not for economy sailors or those who like to ponder.

Advantages - being able to explore waters others can't - I've been up the Guadiana to Mertola, the Aven to Pont Aven and many other delightful places. Drying out - I've avoided the slipping and sliding boats in St Mary's during a 2-day SW 7-9 by beaching at New Grimsby, removed and replaced the gearbox (involved sliding out the propshaft) at Castletownhead beach between tides. In the Med its been of little value except for being able to occupy an inner berth at Darsena Trajana in Fiumicino with only 75cm of water.

 

[Mino]

Advantages - being able to explore waters others can't - I've been up the Guadiana to Mertola, the Aven to Pont Aven and many other delightful places. Drying out - I've avoided the slipping and sliding boats in St Mary's during a 2-day SW 7-9 by beaching at New Grimsby, removed and replaced the gearbox (involved sliding out the propshaft) at Castletownhead beach between tides. In the Med its been of little value except for being able to occupy an inner berth at Darsena Trajana in Fiumicino with only 75cm of water.

Hi Charles,

First of all, thank you very much for the kind wishes. Much appreciated. Secondly, thanks also for the explanations re. lifting keels. As I'm still a newbie compared to most here, (give me another 20 years and I think I'll be ready to qualify myself as 'experienced!') that was also appreciated. If I return to sail, Southerly is my first and only choice re. a lifting keel yacht. Being able to dry out is very appealing. My late father's yacht had a bilge keel and we dried out frequently so he could inspect the hull, or because we had moored at a shallow anchorage. Being able to walk/wade ashore was very useful.

I have a question about the Guadiana: it's extremely hard to judge the height of the E1 bridge from photographs, but I'd guesstimate that you had to lower your mast before passing underneath? Would that be correct?

 

[Tranona]

There are really two issues to consider. The first is whether you need shallow draft, and the second how do you achieve it.

Needs depends on where and how you want to sail. If you regularly sail from a marina that has a sill for access then shallow draft extends your access time. If you like sailing in drying tidal estuaries or shallow lagoons then shallow draft and the ability to dry out widens the possibilities. If you sail mainly offshore or in tideless waters there is little value in shallow draft.

However, in the size of boats you might be considering (if you are looking at Southerlys) then draft is an issue if you want to transit the French canals where draft available is less than most fixed keel boats of 35'+. Then you have a choice of smaller boat, shallow draft fixed keel or movable keel. We chose the shallow fixed keel to keep that option open and accept the (small) loss in sailing performance. The other advantage of shallow(er) draft is i small harbours where you can get into spaces other boats can't and particularly avoid the ballast rocks common on Greek quays which regularly maul deep rudders on some boats.

Lifting keels carry a big premium in cost and complexity, particularly now they are usually accompanied by twin rudders and bow thrusters so I think you really need to convince yourself that you are going to make full use of the features. I know there are other reasons for choosing a Southerly but you can get boats of equally high quality and style for significantly less if you don't want the keel arrangements.

Not knocking Southerly as they have clearly identified a niche, but the fact that few others have followed suggests it is a very small niche.

 

[vyv_cox]

We bought the shallow fin version of the Sadler 34 specifically so that we could transit the Canal du Midi, even though it was ten years before we achieved it. In the meantime we had cruised many areas where shallow draught was a bonus, UK west and east coasts, Atlantic France, Holland, where we found ourselves able to reach places that many others could or would not, particulalrly in Holland, where we cruised the 'wats' and many shallow canals. We solved the drying out problem by fitting Yacht Legs, used frequently to great effect. There is a page on them on my website.

Sorry to hear of your illness. Having had an accident almost two years ago that kept me in bed for three months and has severely restricted my mobility, I can sympathise. We now take what we can on the water, for our first season barely sailing at all, motoring everywhere, for our second counting the times we could sail with both main and genoa as an achievement. This year my target is to use the spinnaker, possibly not an achievable one. I hope you can take progress in small steps and find it as satisfying as I have.

 

[Mino]

We bought the shallow fin version of the Sadler 34 specifically so that we could transit the Canal du Midi, even though it was ten years before we achieved it. In the meantime we had cruised many areas where shallow draught was a bonus, UK west and east coasts, Atlantic France, Holland, where we found ourselves able to reach places that many others could or would not, particulalrly in Holland, where we cruised the 'wats' and many shallow canals. We solved the drying out problem by fitting Yacht Legs, used frequently to great effect. There is a page on them on my website.
.

Hi Vyv,

Thanks to you too for the kind words. Frustrating, isn't it!

Am I correct in thinking that your Sadler draws 4' 8"? I have never sailed one, but distinctly remember drooling over them at the London boat show. Also, how much depth do you tend to keep under your keel when at anchor? Opinion seems to vary on this, but I'd be interested to know yours. I visited an American forum recently and a number of moboers there beach their boats on sand at any given opportunity. Must play havoc with the gel coat.

I bookmarked your site a while ago and was re-reading your page about taking lines ashore only yesterday. Those photos are gorgeous. And thanks for the tip about yacht legs. Hadn't considered that. What a great idea. I'm assuming yours were made by these chaps? http://www.yachtlegs.co.uk/home.php

 

[Slow_boat]

My previous boat (up for sale) is a Sadler 29 twin keel. Not for the lack of draft, which makes not a lot of differnce in the real world as I always like at least a meter under my keel anyway, but for the cheaper drying moorings and the ability to take the ground whihc gives access to a lot more out of the way places.

Compare with a deep keel Sadler 29, the upwind performance was less but I don't race so don't care. Still a damn good sea boat.

My new/current boat is a twin keel Countess 33 which we are planning to sail away on. I didn't intend to get another twin keel specifically but am glad I did as it means I can visit a lot of drying harbours on the way south. If and when I leave her ashore in the more out of the way and therefore cheaper bits of the med I won't have to rely on bits of wood and chocks to hold her upright.

The downside that I see in non tidal waters is not being able to scrub between the keels without a lift out.

 

[vyv_cox]

Am I correct in thinking that your Sadler draws 4' 8"? I have never sailed one, but distinctly remember drooling over them at the London boat show. Also, how much depth do you tend to keep under your keel when at anchor? Opinion seems to vary on this, but I'd be interested to know yours. I visited an American forum recently and a number of moboers there beach their boats on sand at any given opportunity. Must play havoc with the gel coat.

I bookmarked your site a while ago and was re-reading your page about taking lines ashore only yesterday. Those photos are gorgeous. And thanks for the tip about yacht legs. Hadn't considered that. What a great idea. I'm assuming yours were made by these chaps? http://www.yachtlegs.co.uk/home.php

I think we draw 4 ft 6 inches, 1.4 metres. Under most circumstances I go for about a metre beneath the keel but where the bottom is level I sometimes accept less, down to half a metre where we know there are no obstructions. We sailed in Holland for many years and became used to shallow water. I have a photo of us doing 7 knots in 20 knots of wind near Harlingen, with 0.4 metres below the keel!

Yes, our legs are Yacht Legs. Many Sadlers were built with them installed from new but I fitted mine myself. They can make a huge contribution to cruising in the tidal waters of Uk and surroundings.

 

[Ric]

Something to consider is that shallow draft is not the only advantage of lifting keel. Lifting keel boats are very good downwind as you can lift the keel partly or entirely to increase the longitudinal stability of the boat. Also, with the keel lifted there is less chance of a broach in a following sea as there is no keel for the boat to trip over. Also, a well designed lifting keel boat with a very deep, hydrodynamic fin can go better upwind than many fin keelers whose fixed keel draft is compromised by the need to be reasonably shallow to get into ports etc.

The big drawback of most lifting keel boats is their comparatively poor light wind performance. Bulky keelboxes add to underwater drag, and internal ballast adds to weight. Also, the rig and sail area is often limited by the need for a short inefficient rudder. Boats like the Parker and Sirius, with all their ballast contained in a very heavy lifting keel possibly don't do too badly in light winds, but most are poor.

Another consideration is handling under motor with the keel up. Fin keelers can generally turn almost in their own length by pivoting about the keel, aided by propwash over a deep rudder. A lifting keel boat with twin rudders that are not in the propwash can be very hard indeed to turn at low speed, meaning the complication, weight and expense of a bow thruster become a consideration.

 

[AB1707]

Good luck with your recuperation and recovery. A boat you could look at is a Kelt 39. I've sailed one extensively around the Solent and cross Channel. The keel lifts to 0.7m and the boat can dry out. This means you can certainly relax as the water reduces as if you do hit mud you can come off so easily. The sailing performance is good and as are all 30+ yrs old they go for around £55k. They became Feelings in 1990. An unusual layout that's a bit Marmite but worth looking at.
Having sailed one for a couple of years I have found that despite the good intentions you don't dry out or use the lifting keel anywhere near as much as you'd think and theirs always plenty of places to go. If you get to the Med then even fewer reasons.
Good luck

 

[Mino]

Needs depends on where and how you want to sail. If you regularly sail from a marina that has a sill for access then shallow draft extends your access time. If you like sailing in drying tidal estuaries or shallow lagoons then shallow draft and the ability to dry out widens the possibilities. If you sail mainly offshore or in tideless waters there is little value in shallow draft. .

Thanks Tranona. That further helped my yacht decision making and shopping via the sofa! Sailing in drying tidal estuaries and shallow lagoons and rivers away from the popular spots is the main appeal of having a shallow draft; that and the drying out aspect. Reading these replies (and using Vyv as a guide point) has shown me that I don't necessarily need a lifting keel as long as I have a reasonably shallow draft. Marinas and touristy spots I intend to only frequent occasionally. The French canals are losing their appeal after reading up on other's experiences, mainly due to the fact I'll be single-handed, and I had originally intended to traverse them in the South over the winter which turns out to have been a mistake! Obviously I'll end up having to make some sort of comprise as no boat ticks all the right boxes.

 

[Mino]

My new/current boat is a twin keel Countess 33 which we are planning to sail away on.

I have fond memories from my childhood and a feeling of nostalgia for twin keel boats as my dad had one. His was very solid, safe and stable ; even in rough seas, and practical, but oh my God it was slow! We averaged 2-3 knots under sail and if we hit 4 it was an event!

 

[Mino]

Something to consider is that shallow draft is not the only advantage of lifting keel. Lifting keel boats are very good downwind as you can lift the keel partly or entirely to increase the longitudinal stability of the boat. Also, with the keel lifted there is less chance of a broach in a following sea as there is no keel for the boat to trip over. Also, a well designed lifting keel boat with a very deep, hydrodynamic fin can go better upwind than many fin keelers whose fixed keel draft is compromised by the need to be reasonably shallow to get into ports etc.

The big drawback of most lifting keel boats is their comparatively poor light wind performance. Bulky keelboxes add to underwater drag, and internal ballast adds to weight. Also, the rig and sail area is often limited by the need for a short inefficient rudder. Boats like the Parker and Sirius, with all their ballast contained in a very heavy lifting keel possibly don't do too badly in light winds, but most are poor.

Another consideration is handling under motor with the keel up. Fin keelers can generally turn almost in their own length by pivoting about the keel, aided by propwash over a deep rudder. A lifting keel boat with twin rudders that are not in the propwash can be very hard indeed to turn at low speed, meaning the complication, weight and expense of a bow thruster become a consideration.

I think once I have drawn up a short list, I will spend time on various types and see which I am most comfortable with. Again, compromises will no doubt have to be made.

 

[Mino]

Good luck with your recuperation and recovery.
Having sailed one for a couple of years I have found that despite the good intentions you don't dry out or use the lifting keel anywhere near as much as you'd think and theirs always plenty of places to go. If you get to the Med then even fewer reasons.
Good luck

Thanks for the good wishes and yes, I had wondered the same thing, hence starting this thread. I'm finding out that yes, shallow draft is still important, but perhaps not as shallow as I had originally thought.

 

[Bongo]

I had a lift keel Kelt. Ideal family boat at the time on the east coast. Shallow rudder compromised its sail carrying, even though fractional rigged , it wasn't prudent to sail through moorings in gusty weather..Drying out was lots of fun but couldn't get at all the hull, or the lift keel to scrub off.
If I were to buy lift keel again, it would have to have twin rudders...but the RM yacht seems a better rethink on the bilge keeler/shallow water/drying out problem.
Best wishes to you,

 

[charles_reed]

Something to consider is that shallow draft is not the only advantage of lifting keel. Lifting keel boats are very good downwind as you can lift the keel partly or entirely to increase the longitudinal stability of the boat. Also, with the keel lifted there is less chance of a broach in a following sea as there is no keel for the boat to trip over. Also, a well designed lifting keel boat with a very deep, hydrodynamic fin can go better upwind than many fin keelers whose fixed keel draft is compromised by the need to be reasonably shallow to get into ports etc.

The big drawback of most lifting keel boats is their comparatively poor light wind performance. Bulky keelboxes add to underwater drag, and internal ballast adds to weight. Also, the rig and sail area is often limited by the need for a short inefficient rudder. Boats like the Parker and Sirius, with all their ballast contained in a very heavy lifting keel possibly don't do too badly in light winds, but most are poor.

Another consideration is handling under motor with the keel up. Fin keelers can generally turn almost in their own length by pivoting about the keel, aided by propwash over a deep rudder. A lifting keel boat with twin rudders that are not in the propwash can be very hard indeed to turn at low speed, meaning the complication, weight and expense of a bow thruster become a consideration.

Your remarks are probably true about a minority of "lift-keel" boats but, because of the catch-all nature of the term, it's applicable to less than 50%. You'll find it's generally only centre-board boats which go better with board up, some, notably lift keel boats with all their ballast in the keel will be safe with keel full-down and increasingly unsafe as you lift it.
You are correct in your comment of lack of control with keel raised, but not about the twin rudders. I can turn my lift-keel boat within her own length quite easily and can use induced prop-walk
to park sideways, a feat which few AWB owners would care to essay. And that's with an Autoprop.

As to light-wind performance you are wide of the mark, though in <3knots wind it's difficult to sail my current lift-keel boat that is probably due to its greater wetted area more than anything else.
Most lift-keelers (with the exception of the Southerly) have adequate sail area some like the Anderson 22 and the Parkers will outsail their peer group.

It is unfortunate that so many with no experience of lift keelers promulgate their mistaken opinions (mainly due to sheer lack of knowledge).

 

[vyv_cox]

If your primary intention is to head for the Mediterranean around the outside I suggest that going for a shallow fin or lifting keel does not justify the restriction of choice that you will encounter. Since we came through the Canal du Midi I have never used the legs, which are now stored at home. The difference in closeness to shore that I can anchor is not a great deal in the Med, which mostly tends to be deepish until quite close in.

If buying a boat pretty much exclusively for the Med I would definitely have a deep fin to try to counter the leeway typically encountered with Mediterranean 'square waves'. It can be very disappointing watching our course on the plotter when beating, even though we know we point well in flat water.

 

[charles_reed]

If your primary intention is to head for the Mediterranean around the outside I suggest that going for a shallow fin or lifting keel does not justify the restriction of choice that you will encounter. Since we came through the Canal du Midi I have never used the legs, which are now stored at home. The difference in closeness to shore that I can anchor is not a great deal in the Med, which mostly tends to be deepish until quite close in.

If buying a boat pretty much exclusively for the Med I would definitely have a deep fin to try to counter the leeway typically encountered with Mediterranean 'square waves'. It can be very disappointing watching our course on the plotter when beating, even though we know we point well in flat water.

Good sound advice - the only thing I'd add is having a nice heavy boat to carry ones' way though those self-same high-frequency waves.

 

[Seajet]

Min,

I do wish you all the best with your health, it seems to get us when last minute we'd been sprightly...

As for lift keelers one thing I'd mention is keel maintainence; if a boat is kept ashore with the keel retracted the keel plate cannot be looked after and will suffer, eventually to a terminal point - for the boat or crew !

For this reason I keep my Anderson 22 on high trestles every winter, and I know someone who keeps his Southerly over a pit to allow lowering the keel.

As for larger lift keel boats think about rudder area and protection too; ( twin rudders are vulnerable as they're not behind a keel ) the sailors' choice of large lift keeler is the Ovni, but they aren't cheap !

 

[Mino]

If your primary intention is to head for the Mediterranean around the outside I suggest that going for a shallow fin or lifting keel does not justify the restriction of choice that you will encounter. Since we came through the Canal du Midi I have never used the legs, which are now stored at home. The difference in closeness to shore that I can anchor is not a great deal in the Med, which mostly tends to be deepish until quite close in.

If buying a boat pretty much exclusively for the Med I would definitely have a deep fin to try to counter the leeway typically encountered with Mediterranean 'square waves'. It can be very disappointing watching our course on the plotter when beating, even though we know we point well in flat water.

The plan is to start in the UK, head over to Northern Europe then slowly make my way to the Med either via Gib or perhaps the canal/river route to the Black Sea, which from my limited research thus far, appears to be do-able. Whether or not I will stay there on a permanent basis is undetermined as I only managed a few months before coming back to the UK and as change in all things is inevitable, Blighty may regain its appeal. Frankly, I like the seasons, and snow. The cold and damp aspect is a bit depressing, though! Methinks a compromise yacht wise is the way forward.