Lifespan of grp boats
- Thread starter bushwacka
- Start date
asteven221
Well-known member
I wonder if there is a business opportunity.
Some enterprising person could set up a business to take perfectly sound old GRP hulls and restore the boats to a good "as new" standard ready for selling on. I mean on a volume basis where they have a structured set of factory processes and all the correct tooling and machinery. I reckon if say a boat like a Hurley 22 (or any other 60/70/early 80's even) was dropped into a big workshop/factory, kitted up with all the latest machinery, and a large team of people, they would be able to strip it and refinish it in a matter of a few days. Boats from that era are not very complicated and really basic in both assembly, and finish. It's going to a lot cheaper for the end user to buy a "factory" refurb than a brand new one.
All the fans of "old boats are much better than new boats" of which there seems many - at least on here, will be rushing to get their wallets out! For them this enterprise would represent heaven! Younger folk would be attracted to boating as well with the boats being the right size, attractive, as new and not too expensive.
So why not?
Some enterprising person could set up a business to take perfectly sound old GRP hulls and restore the boats to a good "as new" standard ready for selling on. I mean on a volume basis where they have a structured set of factory processes and all the correct tooling and machinery. I reckon if say a boat like a Hurley 22 (or any other 60/70/early 80's even) was dropped into a big workshop/factory, kitted up with all the latest machinery, and a large team of people, they would be able to strip it and refinish it in a matter of a few days. Boats from that era are not very complicated and really basic in both assembly, and finish. It's going to a lot cheaper for the end user to buy a "factory" refurb than a brand new one.
All the fans of "old boats are much better than new boats" of which there seems many - at least on here, will be rushing to get their wallets out! For them this enterprise would represent heaven! Younger folk would be attracted to boating as well with the boats being the right size, attractive, as new and not too expensive.
So why not?
pvb
Well-known member
Interesting thought, but I don't think there's enough profit in it to make it worthwhile.
Wansworth
Well-known member
This was mooted a while back ,no money in it or rather too expensive to sell finished product,who wants a very smart but obviously reconditioned 1970 boat for say 50 grand,just guessing
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
Some more interesting history (well, I think it's interesting) at 50 years of reinforced plastic boats - Materials Today
pvb
Well-known member
Yes, that's a good article, by someone who knows the subject.
asteven221
Well-known member
Going by the comments of many on this forum over the years, many would love to be able to buy a 70's boat that's essentially like new. Personally I don't agree that older is always better but clearly many do think that.
Why should a refurb boat be "obviously reconditioned"? These boats were so simple in finish they could be stripped back to a bare hull in a day. I know because I have owned a few and had the "pleasure" of working on them myself. All faults in the fibreglass could be fixed like new very quickly and the whole hull refinished to look new in no time with the correct tools, processes and number of people. Then pop in the new interior bits & bobs including maybe an electric motor instead of a diesel. Replace any wood with new bits, quickly made in the hi-tech wood cutting and finishing systems and all screws/glued on tot he hull. Job done - a few days.
Why is there no money in it? There seems to be a market for the profile of boat that would be the result of the re-manufacture. A refurb boat would be a lot less expensive to make, mainly because the hull (other than transport costs) would be free, or you might be paid to take it and could maybe even get a recycling grant from the government, There isn't any expensive design, prototype and testing costs as it's all done and the hull in built, All the fittings would cost the same as a new boat, except that old boats have a lot less of them than recent boats. There would be room for bespoke changes for those who want to pay a premium for say teak decks etc.....
I may well be talking nonsense, but it seems to me that there is potential in this boat re-manufacturing business.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
The GT35 was a bold attempt to sell a new 1990s yacht in the 2010s. Even when they simplified it a bit and cut the price from "exorbitant" to "ridiculous" they still didn't manage to sell a single one. It was by all accounts a very nice boat but the problem is the same, essentially, as with your idea ...
I can buy a nice Hurley 22 for £1.5, if I look around. I can buy an immaculate Centaur with new engine for £5k. How much more would your remanufactured versions cost?
Furthermore, since everything in the remanufactured ones would be new except the hull, why not go the whole hog and make a new one? Resin and glass aren't that expensive and with modern technology making a new Centaur hull would be an afternoon's job. Almost certainly much cheaper than taking an existing one, cutting the deck moulding off, cutting out everything inside, making repairs, sealing up unnecessary hols, blasting and refinishing (with what? nothing beats original gelcoat).
Bavaria could easily make 20 - 26' foot yachts if they wanted. They don't want to.
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anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
Once you have a mould, popping an average hull and deck out is only a couple of days work. Doing the rest takes months.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Refurbishing an old 1970 grp boat is possible for your own pleasure but on a commercial basis I don’t see it,
pvb
Well-known member
Or even years.
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
Surely not?
asteven221
Well-known member
Sorry, you just won,t get a "brand new" Centaur for £5k. Nor will you get a ""brand new" Hurley for £1.5k. Do Bavaria not charge over £100k for 30 footer delivered, commissioned with basic toys installed?
Fair point about mass producing a hull, which may well be a better way to go however in this thread we are looking at a solution for old boats. Sure the likes of Bavaria dont want to make small boats. Neither does anyone else it seems. Maybe thats why re-manufacturing could satisfy a gap un the market. A key to my thinking is that the remanufactured boats are brand new when it comes to selling. New everything except the hull, or at least made to seem like new. New smell. Like just out the wrapper.
Rappey
Well-known member
Lifespan according to boat breakers is about 30 years .They say newer boats are very flexible and hard to crush.
After 30 yrs the grp becomes extremely brittle and are much easier to break up !
After 30 yrs the grp becomes extremely brittle and are much easier to break up !
Keith 66
Well-known member
[Why should a refurb boat be "obviously reconditioned"? These boats were so simple in finish they could be stripped back to a bare hull in a day. I know because I have owned a few and had the "pleasure" of working on them myself. All faults in the fibreglass could be fixed like new very quickly and the whole hull refinished to look new in no time with the correct tools, processes and number of people. Then pop in the new interior bits & bobs including maybe an electric motor instead of a diesel. Replace any wood with new bits, quickly made in the hi-tech wood cutting and finishing systems and all screws/glued on tot he hull. Job done - a few days. ]
I Worked at Thames Marine building Mirage 28's & a few of the last Snapdragons, then at Jaguar yachts building Jag 24's. Spent most of my life repairing & building boats of all sorts.
A standard theme on 99% of production boats of the 70's was the practice of Gelling over nuts or slapping fibreglass over them.
This means taking anything apart becomes a nightmare. Bolts are seized & corroded. Alloy fittings have their bolts corroded in solid.
They were never intended to be taken apart. Once all the ancillaries wear out it takes a lot of time to bring them back.
Doing it down in a day? is wildly optimistic.
If it was viable it would have been done, hell i would have done it!
But by the time you renew everything from the engine, stern gear, seacocks windows, headlinings, the wiring, intruments, sails & spars who is going to buy it at a commercialy viable cost? The answer is Nobody.
I Worked at Thames Marine building Mirage 28's & a few of the last Snapdragons, then at Jaguar yachts building Jag 24's. Spent most of my life repairing & building boats of all sorts.
A standard theme on 99% of production boats of the 70's was the practice of Gelling over nuts or slapping fibreglass over them.
This means taking anything apart becomes a nightmare. Bolts are seized & corroded. Alloy fittings have their bolts corroded in solid.
They were never intended to be taken apart. Once all the ancillaries wear out it takes a lot of time to bring them back.
Doing it down in a day? is wildly optimistic.
If it was viable it would have been done, hell i would have done it!
But by the time you renew everything from the engine, stern gear, seacocks windows, headlinings, the wiring, intruments, sails & spars who is going to buy it at a commercialy viable cost? The answer is Nobody.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
Of course. But my point was that I can get a very nice one of either for those prices. What extra benefit would I get for paying ten to twenty times more?
The only price I can find for an Easy 9.7 is £70k on the water, six years ago. Bavaria Easy 9.7 review: a quality attraction - boats.com.
There is no gap in the market. If there was, Bavaria would be filling it. Your remanufactured old hull will certainly cost more than it would cost them to produce a new boat from scratch. Furthermore, remember that unless you stick to just one or two types (Centaur and Corribee, say) in good supply, you'll have all the costs of designing a new fit out for every single hull you get.
I'm sorry, but it's a dud idea.[/QUOTE]
coopec
N/A
You are correct.
However that's the difficult part of building a yacht in your backyard. You build a mold and run off X6 Dorade Boxes, X1 Instrument Binnacle or X2 Hatch Trims.
It brings tears to your eyes when you destroy them as you know a professional boat builder could use the mold to run off X200 parts. Even so it takes a boatyard with all their resources seven months to build one Hallberg Rassy
William_H
Well-known member
I don't think there would be a market for refurbished old boats. It is hard enough to sell new boats. Indeed molds for some very good boats are floating around here but are simply not wanted. The second hand market for boats is so cheap.
GRP will IMHO last forever. It is the design that gets old but even then old designs are not much better than new designs. I think around here the only new sailing boats sold are the high performance designs in sports boats around 7 or 8 metres or high performance ocean racers. (not often). Not withstanding Coopec is definitely in the minority buying a hull and building it. My 78 model boat is fine and fortunately fairly modern design (indeed still in production if you want one) Hull is in great condition. Not so the gel coat. ol'will
GRP will IMHO last forever. It is the design that gets old but even then old designs are not much better than new designs. I think around here the only new sailing boats sold are the high performance designs in sports boats around 7 or 8 metres or high performance ocean racers. (not often). Not withstanding Coopec is definitely in the minority buying a hull and building it. My 78 model boat is fine and fortunately fairly modern design (indeed still in production if you want one) Hull is in great condition. Not so the gel coat. ol'will
coopec
N/A
I think times have changed forever.
Twenty(+) years ago the Maylands Amateur Builder Boatyard had 100 boats under construction. Last time I checked (5 years ago?) there was one.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
That's just the inefficiency of hand-made production. Bavaria can make an entire boat in a few days.
