Liferaft Stowage

[webcraft]

Most popular place for the liferaft on smaller boats seems to be just for'ard of the main hatch garage, behind the mast. Even a 27 footer usually has enough space here, which is otherwise wasted.

However . . . it would seem to have two possible drawbacks. Firstly, it adds a substantial amount of weight quite high above the waterline. Secondly, in the event of a knockdown resulting in a complete inversion the raft would probably be far enough underwater for a hydrostatic release (if fitted) to be triggered.

Is it better, assuming enough locker space, to have a valise in an easily accessible locker? (Purchase is quite a bit cheaper as well). What type of liferaft do you carry and where do you keep it? How many of you use a hydrostatic release?

[I've always thought that on the coachroof with a hydrostatic release is the only answer for sudden catastrophic sinking (eg container/whale collision) but am curious as to other people's thinking on this].

A friend has a valise in the bridgedeck locker on his Sigma 33 which is dedicated to this, but not everyone has such an obvious place for their raft.

And - for a complete picture - how many of you don't have a raft, and if not why not?

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue>
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[bigmart]

I am one of the, I am sure, who does not carry a Liferaft.

Three reasons:

1) Most of my sailing is coastal. Would be nice to have one but isit really necessary.

2) Room. I carry so much gear already & a Liferaft is a pretty big chunk of kit.

3) Cost. A valise job is cheaper but requires more regular servicing. A canister job costs more to buy but can often offer longer servicing intervals.

It would be safer to have one as I couldn't afford to go sailing & wouldn't fit on the boat.

Hows that, for a good way of justifying the fact that, I'm too tight.

Martin

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[paultr]

I have always caried a liferaft since an an aquaintance who was a head banging ozzie was shocked when he was sailing with us and found out there was not one on board. Previously we had only hired one for offshore passages. Since then my whole laissez faire attitude to sailing has changed and although I love the care free feeling of being afloat I have come to realise the importance of safety. During the last season we have started to wear lifejackets whilst on deck - previously this was on night passages only. For the record felling on lieferafts are:

a) mine is in canister on the coachroof as the norm and I am aware it could get washed off in big sea - I now think a valise would be better.
b) We went for the bees knees 6 man with floor. For coastal cruising with only an exceptional crew of 6 I now think a 4 man would be better and more stable in a big sea with only two on board.


ps as mentioned on this board before but a must-read if you haven't is John Nuttalls experience on lyc.org.uk


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[charles_reed]

The two most popular stowage points are transom or on deck abaft the mast.

Mine is the latter stowage.

I had a valise - I wouldn't have one again - far more difficult to stow, liable to accidental damage and needing more frequent servicing.

I'd recommend a 406 EPIRB as a more critical purchase than a liferaft.

Your most rapid catastrophic sinking will be being run down by a freighter - even if you have a raft you'll be unlikely to get into it.
With other collisions you have sufficient time to inflate and get into the raft without an hydrostatic release (which is most uncommon on yottie rafts).

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[jonjo]

I researched life rafts last week and had an interesting chat with the man from Nationwide Hire as recommended here recently.

Learnt the following:

1 - A too large raft is a liability so buy for your typical offshore crew size.
2 - Extra servicing costs quickly eliminate the initial valise saving.
3 - Having seen pictures of the Zodiac model favoured by Sailing mag and the man from Nationwide I concluded it was a coastal model with a roof. For 20% more I can get a serious looking Avon that should be good for 20 years.
4 – The stowage location should be part of a plan to get the whole crew quickly bundled into the life raft without anyone ending up in the water because it is so problematic getting into a raft from the water.

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[Twister_Ken]

Valise in the forecabin for Solent sailing. Offshore the rubadub moves to the forecabin, and the valise replaces it in the stbd cockpit locker.

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[Robin]

Pushpit mounted cannister, I know extra strength comes from adrenalin panic but I still like the idea that gravity aids launch - they are very heavy. Apart from the weight problem, keeping one down below could make it inaccessible in the event of fire. I know people who have taken to their raft (one in the Solent) because of fire, I don't (yet) know personally anyone who needed it after shipwreck from heavy weather or collision.

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[Magic_Sailor]

Hi Nick

I've just purchsed and fitted one - and by coincidence went on a sea survival course yesterday. We bought it as we intend to be in the Bay of Biscay this year. My observations are these.

1. We purchased a Plastimo/XM 4 man in a canister - our 27' boat there's no room for a dedicated (and it must be dedicated) locker. The extra price was about £50 (Mailspeed). I didn't think SWMBO could get a valise over the guardrail anyway - adrenalin rush or no. Underneath the guardrail, I can see it geting all caught up. The canister slides easily on the deck and can just "shoot" out undr the rail.

2. I fitted it in from of the mast - abaft the hatch - the only space. The push pit rail wasn't big enough and already had a lot of kit on it anyway. THis is close to the rail in a flattish section of deck with cleats nearby to easily attach the painter.

3. I have attached it using webbing with quick release thingies. I did not use a hydrostatic release. I am not convinced ot will always work - it might not go off and even if it does, sods law (which is inviolate) tells me that it may (will!) get caught up on the sinking boat anyway. The liferaft has a lot of bits of string hanging off it and it inflates relatively slowly (30 - 60 seconds) - plenty of time to get hooked up. I'm not very trustful of automatic systems - indeed when I did the pool work yesterday and jumped in with my automatic life jacket on the unit failed to fire (presumably as I didn't go deep enough) and I had to pull the rip cord. My point is that whilst the unit can be tested to fire at a certain depth, how many boats have the manufacturers/assessors actually sunk to see that the system as a whole works - not many I suspect.

My strategy in the event of an emergency will be to deploy early. I recognise this may not always be possible but all safety systems are a trade off.

Hope my thoughts are helpful.



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[Mirelle]

Just bought a canister raft, after 30 years of never carrying one. Reason - children. Hydrostatic release was expensive, but not in comparison to the raft itself. It cannot go on the coachroof, because that is where our rigid dinghy goes, upside down. The ideal location is on the after deck, which takes a bit of contriving, with the tiller, mainsheet, boom gallows and lazarette hatch in the way, but I think I can see how - for the moment it is on the foredeck.

A thought - it was traditional wisdom not to secure a dinghy carried on the coach roof to the coachroof itself, because a sea might take the coachroof off with the dinghy. I followed this advice and our dinghy is lashed to eye bolts through the deck beams.

I fancy the same rule should apply to liferafts on coachroofs - is the coachroof strengthened to take the load?

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[pkb]

I went through a similar debate recently. We've carried a small four-man valise in one of our cockpit lockers for several years - she was originally bought for a smaller boat. Along with some other work being done this spring I am having a six-man Forties canister fitted. I did think initially about the transom but there's a lot of kit there already and I also worred about the vulnerability of the pushpit and the raft so I have opted for the hatch garage - forward of the the sprayhood and abaft the mast. Seems like the optimal solution.
Peter

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[charles_reed]

My liferaft is stowed in a ss cradle, and its two retaining straps go round the keel-lift cradle.

It would be possible, in a B3 knockdown for the liferaft and keel-cradle to come partly out, but the keel can be locked down.
The dinghy, in its valise, is strapped down behind the cradle - the retaining straps are through-bolted to the inside of the coachroof, which is 28mm Corex composite.

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[Mirelle]

Thee and me are of like mind....

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[Badger]

I am also thinking about pushpit mounting for a 4 man canister but what about true transom mounted eg in the scooped out section of the stern ? Not that this is particularly re-assuring but I notice Sunsail always fitted them like this ? Looked a bit precarious in a big following sea but a doddle to launch and keeps out of the way.What do you think ???

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[Robin]

I guess it depends on the shape and size of the scoop, if we used our scoop we would block access to the stern ladder. It would get wet sometimes in a following sea but maybe no worse than a wave over the deck if deck mounted. Ours is in a s/s frame on the pushpit, turned vertically to save space. In addition to the s/s strap and lock which came with the bracket we have a nylon quick release belt, plus a s/s multitool with knife fixed by it 'just in case'. the idea is that if deployed the raft would drop free and be accesible via the scoop stern steps. Ours is a 6 man cannister, lifting it is hard work, throwing it over the guardrails from a deck mount in bad conditions doesn't bear thinking about.

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[charles_reed]

\'Ware transom mountings

The 3 year-old loss of a delivery crew member off a Beneteau 39.9, crossing Biscay was due to this mounting.

The liferaft launched, in trying to deflate it or cut it loose one of the watch on board went over.

The skipper ended up in a French court being tried for manslaughter.

Having lost a couple of quarter mounted lifebuoys in big seas, I don't reckon it a particularly sensible/safe mounting position

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[yoda]

An interesting post for extracting the truth! I keep mine on the coachroof when onboard however it is lashed with a sharp knife at the ready. I know some will say this isn't good but there is no perfect answer. Dedicated lockers are good but even then are often difficult to access. As for the height at the height on most boats over 25ft I don't believe it makes that much difference to seriously consider it. While sinking can be quick I'm not sure I would trust both the hydrostatic release to go off and for the liferaft to make it past the rigging on a sinking yacht. Would rather see it afloat alongside prior to yacht finally going down.

Yoda

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[webcraft]

Thanks everyone - much food for thought.

I think a canister on the coachroof is probably the best solution for most boats, in spite of my misgivings as expressed in my first post. It seems to be the most popular option for several good reasons.

Re. launching it - am wondering about some sort of plank-type thing to rest on coachroof and top guardwire to facilitate sliding it over the side if the time ever comes - they are heavy. I once had a 6-man canister break loose on a charter boat beating into a lumpy F5 - a frantic dive just stopped it going over the side under the guardrails, but it was an absolute sod luggin it back into the cockpit.

Perhaps a fender board could be used for this.

I think Yoda is right - well lashed + sharp knife in sheath on mast is probably better than a hydrostatic release, and certainly cheaper!

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue>
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[Robin]

Re: \'Ware transom mountings

I'm not sure I understand this. Ours is not mounted on the quarter. it is mounted on the stern in a specially designed stainless steel frame fitted to the pushpit. It is held in the frame by a stainless steel strap with over-centre catch and safety pin, plus additional webbing straps with buckles (and ready knife/multitool in case). I think it is much more secure in this position than on the coachroof where it can be swept by breaking seas and may be wrongly used as a seat or step to reach the mainsail or halyard etc.

If you mean transom scoop mounting, again I think it depends on the mounting system which needs to be properly designed and fitted. Personally I would not favour this on our boat (Sun Legende 41) as it would block the bathing steps/boarding ladder and be difficult to arrange a secure mount.

A liferaft that had 'self-launched' and inflated would be a serious problem wherever it had been mounted!

Lifebuoys are a different proposition, they are much less protected and just sit in a very light s/s frame.

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[charles_reed]

Re: \'Ware transom mountings

I merely report the report.
Breakers, from following seas in extreme conditions, are far more likely to sweep something off your stern than off your coachroof - neither are entirely proof against wave action.

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[bedouin]

Re: \'Ware transom mountings

I'm inclined to agree with Charles about this. I have read of a number of cases of yachts in severe weather losing their stern rails - either by being pooped by a breaking wave, or when rolled.

I have also heard of cases where liferafts stored on the coachroof have deployed accidentally in heavy weather.

On balance I think that the danger of accidental loss with the liferaft mounted on the stern or coachroof is greater than the danger associated with having to remove the liferaft from the stern locker when needed, so I have decided to keep the raft in a stern locker where it is guaranteed to stay safe.

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