LIBS update: eBorders will be voluntary!

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rallyveteran

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I had it from the horses mouth today at the UKBA stand at Excel.

On a British-flagged leisure vessel carrying only EU passport holders there will be no requirement to make any filing under eBorders. The only requirement will be a technical one on the skipper (who takes the place of "the carrier" on a leisure vessel) who must ask each member of the crew if they are willing for their passport data to be filed electronically under eBorders. Provided they all refuse (which shouldn't take much persuasion ;-)) all the skipper has to do is to make a written note that such a request was made and declined, and proceed with the journey in the normal way.

The UKBA chappie said that one shouldn't be surprised if vessels that hadn't made a filing were boarded more often than ones that had not, but that seems a modest price to pay and gets over all the fears of the difficulty of electronic filing and the consequences of changing plan.

UKBA are still working on making it easy to make an electronic filing for vessels carrying non-EU nationals and others that wish to make a voluntary declaration but as I won't be one of them I stopped listening at this point.

I put it to the UKBA that their life would be much more pleasant if they had a succinct explanation of this relaxation on their website but I assume that such an obvious climbdown in the politically sensitive area of immigration would upset their political masters. Unfortunately this misinformation doesn't end with UKBA, with the RYA trying to justify their existence:

http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/Continueduncertaintyoverbordersscheme.aspx (5/1/10)

"Continued uncertainty over borders scheme

The Government has provided a series of assurances to the European Union in an effort to ensure that its £1.2 billion e-Borders programme will be consistent with EU law ..."

and Yachting Monthly doing no more than regurgitate that press release, rather than to read it to see what it was really saying:

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/437205/e-borders-not-illegal-after-all (6/1/10)

"E-Borders not illegal after all ..."

I think my headline "eBorders will be voluntary" is closer to the truth!
 
rallyveteran said:
I put it to the UKBA that their life would be much more pleasant if they had a succinct explanation of this relaxation on their website but I assume that such an obvious climbdown in the politically sensitive area of immigration would upset their political masters. Unfortunately this misinformation doesn't end with UKBA, with the RYA trying to justify their existence:

http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/Continueduncertaintyoverbordersscheme.aspx (5/1/10)

"Continued uncertainty over borders scheme
Click to expand...
That RYA website piece was dated 5 January, and it also said
“We will be meeting with the UK Borders Agency during the London Boat Show where we will reiterate our view that the compulsory reporting of all cross-border movements in the recreational boating sector is disproportionate and likely to be ineffective at improving border security."
Click to expand...
How about the possibility that the information that was put out by several sources a week ago might have been correct at the time, but that things have now changed?
And how about the possibility that the RYA's meeting with UKBA might have been one of the factors that brought about the change?
Or did the UKBA stand staff change the policy all by themselves, on the spot, having been convinced by rallyveteran's overwhelming logic?
 
Last edited:
timbartlett said:
How about the possibility that the information that was put out by several sources a week ago might have been correct at the time, but that things have now changed?
And how about the possibility that the RYA's meeting with UKBA might have been one of the factors that brought about the change?
Or did the UKBA stand staff change the policy all by themselves, on the spot, having been convinced by rallyveteran's overwhelming logic?
Click to expand...

The second paragraph of the RYA article says:

"The European Commission has indicated that, in light of the clarifications, commitments and assurances given by the UK Government, it appears that the e-Borders programme would not be in breach of EU Directives relating to data protection and the freedom of movement of EU citizens."

as the relaxation I learned about today was clearly made in response to EU Law I think it is more likely that the relaxation was agreed (by exchange of letters) with the EC some time ago.

But if you think the RYA extracted this concession on 5 January you could get the RYA to publish the minutes of that meeting. This would certainly be more helpful than all the parties to that meeting keeping the proceedings secret and devaluing the consultation being carried out by the UKBA.

I certainly played no part in the change - the UKBA guy launched into the spiel containing this concession with no persuasion from me - but as there are readers of these forums who thought there was still going to be strict enforcement, I thought it would be helpful to let them know.
 
Seems a total cock up. You will do this & you will do that. We know better than you do & you will do as we say.
Oops................er, well look chaps, this might just not work after all.
I know...........lets do as we did with the ID cards...............make it voluntary. That way we cant be criticized for wasting 2.5 billion pounds of there money.

Wonder who the directors of SERCO are ??
 
I'm not at all sure how far this moves us on. There never was a suggestion that they coiuld / would stop Brits from travelling. It was always more of an exercise in data gathering and the skipper saying that his crew have refised to give data means a greater likelyhood of being stopped mid channel to gather the data.

Whats more there was no message of passage plans. Do we have to make them? Will we be fined if we dont?
 
I feel sorry for MoodySabre who was sold a complete pup on Saturday and then took the flak here when he reported what turned out to be nonsense.
 
Have I lost the plot! I was so incensed this morning when I picked up this months copy of YM to find that implementation of e-borders had been brought forward to 2011 that I spent the afternoon writing to my MP and investigating how to set up a petition on the Downing Street site. Now I find that it is all going to be voluntary. I can live with that. The big difficulty was always going to be how to log onto the internet abroad at an appropriate time.

But what is the point at all. If the e-borders rep is suggesting the cutters will look more closely at boats that have not registered any self respecting smuggler is going to ensure he is registered with all his legal crew.

We then get to a stage where the cutters would be better concentrating on those who have registered rather than those who haven't because they have nothing to hide. Told you I had lost it.
 
SERCO directors

Interesting fact, Chris Hyman is (or was) a keen motor racing driver, doesn't stop him from making his cash from speed cameras!
(He also sponsored a mate of mine while he was walking across the North Pole, which has nothing to do with anything... :D)
 
Right - licking pencil stub - let's tot up the scores on the doors.
ID cards - voluntary
EBorders for leisure boaters - voluntary

have I missed any?
 
timbartlett said:
That RYA website piece was dated 5 January, and it also said How about the possibility that the information that was put out by several sources a week ago might have been correct at the time, but that things have now changed?
And how about the possibility that the RYA's meeting with UKBA might have been one of the factors that brought about the change?
Or did the UKBA stand staff change the policy all by themselves, on the spot, having been convinced by rallyveteran's overwhelming logic?
Click to expand...

Or how about the possibility that the UKBA (or RYA - you choose) were just going through the motions regards consultation.

Either way good result and journo of the year award to rallyveteren for breaking the news.
 
From one Quango to the next one

Tommyrot said:
SERCO directors

Interesting fact, Chris Hyman is (or was) a keen motor racing driver, doesn't stop him from making his cash from speed cameras!
(He also sponsored a mate of mine while he was walking across the North Pole, which has nothing to do with anything... :D)
Click to expand...

Margaret joined Serco in October 2003 as a Non-Executive Director. She spent her early career in a variety of roles either in the public sector or as an advisor to Government and is a specialist in leadership development, culture change and public sector reform. From 1997 to 2000 she was Chairman of Lothian Health Board and from 2000 to 2003 was a Non-Executive Director of Ofgem. In December 2007 Margaret retired from English Partnerships, the national regeneration agency, after six highly successful years. From 2000 to 2005 Margaret was a Director of Good Practice Limited, the publishing company that she founded. She was, until May 2009, Managing Director, Social Infrastructure and Development, Royal Bank of Canada Capital Markets.

Margaret is Chairman of Irvine Bay Urban Regeneration Company. She is also a Non-Executive Director of Grainger plc. In April 2009 she was appointed as Chair of the 2012 Legacy Delivery Company.
 
The UKBA chappie said that one shouldn't be surprised if vessels that hadn't made a filing were boarded more often than ones that had not, but that seems a modest price to pay and gets over all the fears of the difficulty of electronic filing and the consequences of changing plan."

I think even that implied pressure is illegal but in order to distinguish those that have registered from those that have not they would need come close and look up the name of the boat, then search the database from their boat .. .then having established it is not registered like 99% of the yachts out there decide to search it ........ wow what threat.

We now enter the face saving phase with a lot of convoluted language and another total waste of public money because even the basic legalities were not checked out!!! Incredible bloody incredible!!
 
PeterR said:
But what is the point at all. If the e-borders rep is suggesting the cutters will look more closely at boats that have not registered .
Click to expand...

Its impossible. How can a few cutters deal with the hundreds maybe even a thousand or more boats leaving th Solent on a sunny summer day? Cloud cuckoo land
 
"One at Bridge Buoy, another at West Princessa."

And form a massive tail back traffic jam? "-)

Its amazing how the story during LBS has changed - from internet only to mobile phone reporting to a voluntary system that has no meaning at all. W week is a long time in politics!
 
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