Lewmar winch control box question - Does a contactor require a load to operate ?

[Oshbosh]

Hi,

I have just bought a new 24v winch motor and gearbox for a large LEWMAR 88 winch on the aft deck, 1 of 2, the other one is working fine.

Each winch has its own control box which accepts a signal from a button on deck and then switches the 24v required to run the motor.

On the control box for the good winch, when I operate the button, I can hear a contactor clicking inside the control box and then the winch starts to run.

On the control box for the winch which requires a new motor, when I operate the button, I do not hear the contactor clicking.

As I have not yet connected the new motor to the control box there is no load connected to the control box.

My question is does a contactor require a load to operate ?

If so then perhaps my control box is okay, if not then I think there is a problem with the control box.

Any help is much appreciated.

Many thanks,

 

[vas]

can you with a multimeter figure out where the voltage is on both and compare?
depending on wiring, shouldn't need the motor to click.

 

[Bobc]

Why not call Lewmar up and ask them. They are vrry helpful.

 

[DownWest]

Contacters don't need a load to operate. The coil is activated by your button, but the load is a switch (sort of) seperate from the coil. Think a light switch, you operate it with your hand, but It is the internal bit that turns the light on.
If you are not getting a click, likely the contactor is faulty, which raises the question that your winch motor might be all right?


Oh, and welcome!

 

[Oshbosh]

Thanks everyone for your input. When the winch first stopped working, the contactor was still working fine, I could still hear it when pressing the button. The old motor was removed and tested but didn't work and the gearbox was not Lewmar, also found the adaptor was all cracked, think they were installed in 94 so just decided to replace everything. Now unfortunately the contactor isn't working so I thought perhaps as it had been okay before I removed the motor etc that maybe it needed the load of the motor to operate. I think these control boxes are load sensing but not entirely sure what that means.

I will connect the motor tomorrow and I guess that will answer the question one way or the other!

Many thanks for all your help, it is greatly appreciated!

 

[VicS]

Thanks everyone for your input. When the winch first stopped working, the contactor was still working fine, I could still hear it when pressing the button. The old motor was removed and tested but didn't work and the gearbox was not Lewmar, also found the adaptor was all cracked, think they were installed in 94 so just decided to replace everything. Now unfortunately the contactor isn't working so I thought perhaps as it had been okay before I removed the motor etc that maybe it needed the load of the motor to operate. I think these control boxes are load sensing but not entirely sure what that means.

I will connect the motor tomorrow and I guess that will answer the question one way or the other!

Many thanks for all your help, it is greatly appreciated!

It is possible that the button is faulty, there is a wiring fault between it and the contactor or no power supply to it.
Only systematic testing with your multimeter will identify the fault.

 

[vas]

a couple of pictures of the contactor box and any label on it would be helpful.
Usually they are v.simple (and quite expensive boxes) that you can carefully pry open, clean the bits and mainly the 4 contact surfaces, put it back together and unsurprisingly work.
That's what I did on mine after 20+ years of use and has served me with no issues for another 10 now-still going strong.

 

[Oshbosh]

The button is brand new and I have also tested at the box using a jumper cable to bypass the button, same result unfortunately

I will definitely try your suggestion Vas!

Thanks everyone, will keep you updated, fingers crossed !

 

[Stemar]

The contactor box on Jazzcat gave a satisfying clunk when I pressed the button in either direction, but only worked to raise the anchor. I got a new box and it now works both ways. Assuming OP's is a 24v version of mine, the centre connection is +24v and the outer two are up and down. With no load on the winch, it won't hurt anything to use a jump lead briefly to connect +24v and each of the others in turn. If the winch works then, the problem is the box.

 

[Oshbosh]

thanks Stemar, I think the problem is more than likely the box as all the external components, winch motor, button etc are new. I will remove the box and see if I can clean the contacts etc as suggested by Vas, see if I can get that satisfying clunk noise!

 

[Oshbosh]

Well, I connected the motor but didn't work so I guess there is a problem in the control box after all. All the contacts are clean to the contactors.

As this is an old box it will be difficult to find a replacement, while I search, does anyone know anyone who could possibly repair it ?

Thanks!

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Well, I connected the motor but didn't work so I guess there is a problem in the control box after all. All the contacts are clean to the contactors.

As this is an old box it will be difficult to find a replacement, while I search, does anyone know anyone who could possibly repair it ?

Thanks!

As you have a new push button unit. We assume it is RF and that you have "Paired" it with the box?? Sorry if that sounds a daft question, but!
The fault could be with the remote, don't discount just because it is new!

 

[Oshbosh]

Hi Alex, I don't believe there is any RF capabilities with my setup, there is no remote. The winch button is connected directly to the PCB. I also used a jumper wire to bypass the button but this didn't work either. Hoping to get it repaired now, the new control box is £1500 !

 

[Boater Sam]

I would remake all he connections 1 to 4 on the terminal block, they look dodgy.

If it is not working it looks to be fairly simple to repair, I have fixed worse!

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

I would remake all he connections 1 to 4 on the terminal block, they look dodgy.

If it is not working it looks to be fairly simple to repair, I have fixed worse!

+1 Also is that fuse OK difficult to tell if what I see is wire or reflection. Also have you tried taking out the thermal cut out and connecting switch across 1 & 4 ?
What about the contactor itself? If I am correct you have shown the control box but not the contactor unit.

 

[DownWest]

. There are quite a lot of ICs and triacs(?) on that board, might be the load sensing bit.
Alex, I think the actual contactor is behind and below the printed circuit.

Oshbosh, you don't say where you are? One assumes UK? I know a guy who fixes control boards for welders and probably could handle that. He sorted the one for my Kemppi welder, sight unseen, for £50 a while back. Lives in the midlands UK. I could send him a note with your pic of the box.

Edit: Just sent him the pic, see what he says.

 

[vas]

well, that's not your typical winch/windlass relay box for sure
as DownWest says, too many ICs in there. PCB looks v.clean, so would go first for the REAL contactor which as noted is behind the PCB. So undo the PCB, get to the other bit and see what it looks like. Would be handy if you could use a multimeter and see what is passed over to the contactor coil, but maybe an expert should have a look.
1.5grand for a load sensing (I guess at this complexity!) board is slightly mental and imho exceeds greatly the marine markup!

 

[ean_p]

I think you need to seperate the pcb from the contactor assembly and try to feed the coils of the contactors with 24v to see if there is reaction. If so then the fault possibly lies in the pcb. if not then it quite likely within the contactors which can 'stick', have the coil go open circuit or the tips weld together. if memory serves the contactors within Lewmar boxes used to be Allbright units which are all fully repairable with spare parts or replacement.
D.C. Contactors and Disconnect Switches - Albright
If the contactors do function then suggest take Down West up on his kind offer as the pcb is a little more sophisticated than just switching the different coils on the contactors.

Vas beat to the finish line....bugger !

 

[Oshbosh]

Good morning,

So, I have tried Alex's suggestion of connecting the button across terminals 1 & 4 and I can hear the contactors engaging, 24V measured coming out at the F1 terminal going to the motor! Amazing!

As was mentioned by Sam above, the terminal block has some scorch damage where the thermal cutout protection was connected so no way of knowing if this function is still operational, could be just bad terminals.

So, I think I can get the winch to work by connecting the button across terminals 1&4, however I would not be able to connect the thermal cutout protection as it is connected across terminals 3&4. Not sure what the implications of this are but I guess its needed. I will ask Lewmar.

So probably the terminal block should be replaced at the very least but think I still need to have the thermal cutout function tested, not sure how this can be done though.

I am in Venice at the moment but could send the unit to the UK for repair, thank you DownWest for your referral, I think I will try to find someone local first though as sending / receiving anything from the UK these days is a nightmare from here. I bought a gas strut recently from the UK for a hatch and it got held up in customs until I could provide a declaration from the manufacturer that it did not contain any Russian steel!

really thankful for all your help guys, I really appreciate it!

 

[DownWest]

Good news.
The guy I mentioned replied and said he would look at it if needed. I will PM you his contact details for future reference. It does look like the thermal cut out is seperate to the board, so possibly available from Alrbright?
DW