Lesuire 17 seaworthy? Honest owner reviews?

[Yachtingsouthwest]

Hi all

Looking for some information on the lesuire 17s both the 17 and 17SL. How seaworthy are they and what common problems do they have?

Thanks in advance

 

[Wansworth]

Never owned but one crossed the Atlantic

 

[Praxinoscope]

Superb little boats, we used to regularly sail Christchurch - Cherbourg in ours back in the 70’s. Not the fastest but no slouch either. Spent an interesting half hour at the Earls Court boat show talking to Arthur C Howard the designer, between 30000 and 4000 were built which suggests that they got something right.

 

[Seashoreman]

I owned a Leisure 17 for 3 years and found it very seaworthy. I regularly sailed over the Ore and Deben bars on weekends without concern singlehanded. Easy to sail with a good sized cockpit. I moved up in size for accommodation, inboard deisel engine , proper heads and galley. They are very popular in Holland and Germany were they fetch good prices.
Just out of interest I was told by Paul Heiney that he also owned one and has fond memories.
Excellent owners website Supporting owners of Leisure yachts around the world - Home page (leisureowners.org.uk)
There are no serious intrinsic or common faults that spring to mind apart from any obvious wear and tear.
They do suffer from leaking window rubbers and lazerette locker seals.
Website has an owners guide which may be helpful.

 

[chriscallender]

Hi all

Looking for some information on the lesuire 17s both the 17 and 17SL. How seaworthy are they and what common problems do they have?

Thanks in advance

I've got an l17, happily b een out when there were speed restrictions on the forth road bridge. So maybe f7 in fairly sheltered water. It depends what is meant by seaworthy. Personally I wouldn't consider crossing an ocean in one (the one that crossed the Atlantic was shipwrecked in Cuba in a hurricane ) but with the right forecasts across the North sea or around Britain would be possible with the time & ambition. Beautifully simple boats and easy to manage single handed too. Old rigging / sails are the most likely failure I'd say. I replaced my tiller the old one was in bad shape .

Chris

 

[AntarcticPilot]

To at least a certain extent, it's not the boat that is seaworthy but the sailor. Slocum's Spray has been shown to have poor stability characteristics - very stable until she wasn't, and she'd go with little warning! Some people reckon that's how Slocum was lost. But Slocum was a consummate professional sailor, and he was seaworthy despite Spray's deficiencies. Spray had many good points, but she was potentially a killer; only Slocum's skill made her the legend she has become. The number of people who have made amazing voyages in craft I'd hesitate to take out of sheltered water is quite staggering.

So, the question isn't really "Is the Leisure 27 seaworthy?", but rather, "Is the combination of my skill and the Leisure 17 seaworthy?"

Note that skill in this context isn't just knowing how to do things, but when to do them - and when NOT to do them. It's about knowing when to run away and fight another day!

 

[Wansworth]

To at least a certain extent, it's not the boat that is seaworthy but the sailor. Slocum's Spray has been shown to have poor stability characteristics - very stable until she wasn't, and she'd go with little warning! Some people reckon that's how Slocum was lost. But Slocum was a consummate professional sailor, and he was seaworthy despite Spray's deficiencies. Spray had many good points, but she was potentially a killer; only Slocum's skill made her the legend she has become. The number of people who have made amazing voyages in craft I'd hesitate to take out of sheltered water is quite staggering.

So, the question isn't really "Is the Leisure 27 seaworthy?", but rather, "Is the combination of my skill and the Leisure 17 seaworthy?"

Note that skill in this context isn't just knowing how to do things, but when to do them - and when NOT to do them. It's about knowing when to run away and fight another day!

Well said

 

[ProDave]

I sail one. See Avatar. An original L17 not the SL.

Of all the small boats I have sailed, the L17 has been the most seaworthy, and the most rewarding boat to sail. It can handle more weather than I can.

If looking to buy one, like any old boat, it is condition that matters. The windows seals previously mentioned have been replaced, a couple of years ago we replaced the top bearing on the rudder shaft which greatly improved helming. We have roller reefing headsail and slab reefing main sail both in good condition.

 

[William_H]

Any of your modern GRP ballasted sail boats with self draining cockpit will be sea worthy. Assuming it is self righting and you have proper arrangements to seal the main hatch then no problems in worst conditions. Of course the rig must be robust. The real problem of seaworthiness as Antarctic pilot has said is the crew. Skill and endurance. Unfortunately the smaller the boat the more lively the motion to the point in a storm where crew may not be physically or mentally able to cope.

 

[Yachtingsouthwest]

Thank you for the replys currently have a Drascombe Coaster but interested in something shorter for driveway storage and with a better layed out accommodation.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Just looked at some s/h Leisure 17’s, and was surprised to see how they are holding their value, we bought ours back in 1971 straight from Cobramold and it cost us about £640 including main and genoa, they still seem to be popular which goes to suggest their integrity.

 

[ProDave]

Thank you for the replys currently have a Drascombe Coaster but interested in something shorter for driveway storage and with a better layed out accommodation.

Accomodation in the L17 is pretty basic. It can in theory sleep 4. We have had 3 overnight and concluded with 4 there would be no room for any of you to have any luggage. We have set up a boom tent over the cockpit which is where breakfast is normally cooked.

 

[Yachtingsouthwest]

How easy are they to launch and recover as a trailer sailer?

 

[ProDave]

How easy are they to launch and recover as a trailer sailer?

You can do a dry launch, literally tip it from the trailer onto a dry slip and wait for the tide to come on. The owners manual suggests you can do a similar dry recovery. We did once. Never again, despite the pretty diagrams almost impossible to get it back onto the trailer.

Probably no harder than any other boat for a wet slipway launch but bear in mind the standard L17 trailer set up is unusual in that the stern of the boat goes to the front of the trailer.

We opt for a club crane in and out at the start and end of each season.

 

[LittleSister]

I took the OPs question to mean how seaworthy are they as pocket cruisers go, not is this the best choice for being out in the ultimate storm.

In which case I'd say they were among the most seaworthy of 17 foot yachts.

 

[neil_s]

You might also look at the Sunstar 18 - designed by Arthur Howard who had considerable skill with bilge keels.

 

[Yachtingsouthwest]

Looking at lifting keels in the 17ft range there doesn't seem to be many that fit this?

 

[Praxinoscope]

ProDave, your Leisure 17 looks great, it brings back happy memories from the early 70’s when we had a 17.

 

[LittleSister]

Looking at lifting keels in the 17ft range there doesn't seem to be many that fit this?

There are some, but they would generally presumably have been designed with performance or trailability more in mind than seaworthiness.

There are a number of boats of that sort of size that were available with a centre-board/lifting keel option, but often fewer were sold than of the bilge keel or fin keel options.

One of those is the Pirate, 17' 3", designed by Ian Proctor, which is the smaller sister of the more famous/common Prelude (19' 3"). I had a bilge keel version (the 'Express Pirate') , and was impressed by her seaworthiness, if not her performance. (I think the vertical encapsulated bilge keels of the Express Pirate a later, non-Ian Proctor design). I imagine the original fin and lifting keel versions of the Pirate would have performed significantly better, but most of those were built by Rydgeway, who were said to build their boats somewhat lightly. (The adjacent Broads and other inland waters were presumably a prime market for them.)

Note that, for seaworthiness purposes, a raised lifting keel/centre-plate will raise the boats centre of gravity and reduce the righting moment. Also, if there is no mechanism to lock the keel/plate down, in the event the boat is knocked down this can result in the keel/plate falling into its case and into the 'raised' position, which could perhaps mean it might not self-right, and there would be nothing to stand on to right it dinghy-style. (This latter was a known risk on a particular model of centre-plate boat I used to own.)

Of course, lots of centre-plate/lifting keel boats survive and make passages very happily despite this - whether or how much this is a consideration will be up to the owner, bearing in mind any advice on the particular model in question.

 

[dolabriform]

My first boat was a L17, still the boat in my avatar despite now having a 36 footer.

Tough, reliable little boats, and great fun to sail. Moved up to a 23SL after the 17, again great boats. ( Although for some reason whenever PBO do a 'feature' on british boats they always seem to forget about the leisures ).

If it wasn't for the growing family I would have probably stuck with the 23SL, maybe even the L17. Not fast, but no slouch either.