Leisure 17 SL "Centre Board"

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Christian0061

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Hello ,

I am a Bavarian lake sailor and reaching the age, when my knees,back and hips are starting to say good bye to dinghy sailing, so i am looking for a more convienient toy to rumble the lakes in southern Bavaria. As my Garage, used as a winterstorage until now, is only 6,5 m long and my wife going mad about my previous idea to use the protected veranda in front of the livingroom as a boat storage in winter :-), i search for an old mans boat around 5 meters length and came to the old Leisure 17. Now i have an offer for an L17SL single keel and Centre Board !!!??????

What is a Leisure 17 with Centre Board? I cant find anything about this type of boat, except:

https://www.c1333564.myzen.co.uk/resources/brochure/17/SLOrderFormExtras.pdf

On this pricelist a CentreBoard-version is offered by Cobramold in 1986.

As the boat i am after now is located now about 500 km from my place, i want to collect some infos before i hit the road to go there.

Is anybody able to help me and provide me with infos about this boat?

thanks in advance and fair winds to all

Christian

ps: i was trying to post this on the leisure owner association, but could not find out how to post without paying the member fee.
 
Christian0061 said:
Hello ,

I am a Bavarian lake sailor and reaching the age, when my knees,back and hips are starting to say good bye to dinghy sailing, so i am looking for a more convienient toy to rumble the lakes in southern Bavaria. As my Garage, used as a winterstorage until now, is only 6,5 m long and my wife going mad about my previous idea to use the protected veranda in front of the livingroom as a boat storage in winter :-), i search for an old mans boat around 5 meters length and came to the old Leisure 17. Now i have an offer for an L17SL single keel and Centre Board !!!??????

What is a Leisure 17 with Centre Board? I cant find anything about this type of boat, except:

https://www.c1333564.myzen.co.uk/resources/brochure/17/SLOrderFormExtras.pdf

On this pricelist a CentreBoard-version is offered by Cobramold in 1986.

As the boat i am after now is located now about 500 km from my place, i want to collect some infos before i hit the road to go there.

Is anybody able to help me and provide me with infos about this boat?

thanks in advance and fair winds to all

Christian

ps: i was trying to post this on the leisure owner association, but could not find out how to post without paying the member fee.
Click to expand...

Hi Christian,

It's not possible to post on the LOA forum without joining, however if you are on Facebook there is a group there.

Also, it would be well worth while emailing Colin ( contact details here: https://www.leisureowners.org.uk/new-page-2 ) as he is a fountain of knowledge.

Regards

David
 
Christian0061 said:
Hello ,

I am a Bavarian lake sailor and reaching the age, when my knees,back and hips are starting to say good bye to dinghy sailing, so i am looking for a more convienient toy to rumble the lakes in southern Bavaria. As my Garage, used as a winterstorage until now, is only 6,5 m long and my wife going mad about my previous idea to use the protected veranda in front of the livingroom as a boat storage in winter :-), i search for an old mans boat around 5 meters length and came to the old Leisure 17. Now i have an offer for an L17SL single keel and Centre Board !!!??????

What is a Leisure 17 with Centre Board? I cant find anything about this type of boat, except:

https://www.c1333564.myzen.co.uk/resources/brochure/17/SLOrderFormExtras.pdf

On this pricelist a CentreBoard-version is offered by Cobramold in 1986.

As the boat i am after now is located now about 500 km from my place, i want to collect some infos before i hit the road to go there.

Is anybody able to help me and provide me with infos about this boat?

thanks in advance and fair winds to all

Christian

ps: i was trying to post this on the leisure owner association, but could not find out how to post without paying the member fee.
Click to expand...

Probably one the best ever boats of it's size . Sunstar 18, by the same designer, is almost identical.
Presumably you have seen this info from the LOA https://www.leisureowners.org.uk/leisure-17-17sl

I would think it is well worth joining the LOA for only £10
 
I am familiar with the Leisure 17 & SL deck version, also the Sunstar 18 one of which is on a mooring next to mine - they came in the very rarely opted fin keel, 99.9% twin ( not bilge with a stub ) keels.

I have the original Leisure 17 brochure in front of me, no mention of a lift keel option.
 
Seajet said:
I am familiar with the Leisure 17 & SL deck version, also the Sunstar 18 one of which is on a mooring next to mine - they came in the very rarely opted fin keel, 99.9% twin ( not bilge with a stub ) keels.

I have the original Leisure 17 brochure in front of me, no mention of a lift keel option.
Click to expand...

See the link I posted earlier and look at the 1986 spec. Mentioned there
 
My first ‘cruiser’ was a Leisure 17 back in the early 70’s, great little boat we regularly sailed from Mudeford to Cherbourg in it, no modern electronics then, a mechanical log, Seafarer echo sounder, compass, VHF radio Seafarer RDF (hunt the null) and charts for DR. Most of the 17’s we used to see seemed to be bilge with the occasional fin, but interesting to learn that there was a single keel version with a centre board, I wonder how many were made.
 
According to Sailboatdate.com the Leisure 17 was built by Cobramold and Brinecraft in UK, then built in Germany, then Greece, then finally Germany again, where they were produced only to 'special order'.

It seems to me quite feasible that at some point one or more centreboarder L17s could have been built. (I am aware of other builders who, having taken over an existing design, tried to broaden its appeal/sales by offering an extra keel configuration.)

On the other hand, it would not be the first time that a boat has been advertised as something it is not!
 
ProDave said:
Why would you be in such a hurry to buy a centreboard L17 if it does exist? you would have a rare boat that you won't get much help and support about.

Just buy one of the many hundreds of standard L17's. Fine little seaworthy sailing boats that they are.
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i can't imagine a centreboard in a L17 being particularly complex or difficult to maintain, or any other reason to avoid it.

A centreboard would make it easier getting on and off a trailer, and the rarity would itself be appealing to some people.
 
The website shown in the OP shows a price list and it does offer a centre board version at £4,300, the list also offers a transport cradle for use with the centre board model.
 
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Seajet said:
Thanks - I'd be surprised if they got into double figures as the twin keeler is so good - though calling the keels ' high aspect ratio ' is pushing it a bit !
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They are probably referring to the Angle of Attack, i.e. the keels are splayed out slightly rather than being parallel to the centreline, in much the same way that an aircraft's wings are angled upwards relative to the fuselage datum line. This countervails the luffing-up effect of the curvature of the hull when the boat is heeled.
There is some element of "high-aspect-ratio" also, in that the keels are quite thin, and their curvature is very shallow, in much the same way that the wings of the Mustang, and later high performance aircraft were, in relation to the wings of, for example the Hurricane and the Spitfire.
 
Spirit (of Glenans) said:
They are probably referring to the Angle of Attack, i.e. the keels are splayed out slightly rather than being parallel to the centreline, in much the same way that an aircraft's wings are angled upwards relative to the fuselage datum line. This countervails the luffing-up effect of the curvature of the hull when the boat is heeled.
There is some element of "high-aspect-ratio" also, in that the keels are quite thin, and their curvature is very shallow, in much the same way that the wings of the Mustang, and later high performance aircraft were, in relation to the wings of, for example the Hurricane and the Spitfire.
Click to expand...

Angle of attack - alpha - and thickness of wing - chord - are different things, high aspect ratio usually means a long thin wing ( or keel ) such as gliders or U-2 aircraft, or Listang / Hunter 701 / Anderson 22 boats; and no the keel doesn't stall usually, it takes someone like David Harding on his review for PBO to provoke it :)

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/anderson-22
 
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Thanks a lot for all your comments!

It seems it needs a german bloke from the Alps to find out about a well kept british boating industry secret? :-) The Centre Board-Error!

The Leisure 17 is one of the most famous english sailboats i guess, maybe outnumbered only by the Centaur and the Mirror :-), but nobody knows about this centre Boat version?

Lets call it " The Riddle of the L17s". ( btw. Is " The Riddle of the sands" a famous book in GB? For me, it was THE book which pushed me into sailing and showed me the first basics of Geo-Politics in my teenage. )
Maybe i should buy the boat as an investment and sell it to a british marine enthusiastic billionaire after a while? lol...Funding-project: She s coming home! :-)
But to sail the boat, i better keep on searching for a well kept L17 with Bilge Keels.

Thanks again, Best Regards and 6 inches of water under your keels

Christian
 
Christian,

for your purposes ie fitting into your garage there is simply no better boat than a twin keel Leisure 17, they're lovely rewarding boats to sail and go much faster than their waterline length suggest, seaworthy too if you take the right precautions like tied on clamp down locker lids.

Check the height in your garage re air draft.

The boat was designed by Arthur Howard with the current 2- stroke engines in mind - so my advice would be to get a good secondhand Yamaha / Mariner 4-5 hp two stroke as a new heavy 4 stroke would cripple her stern down !
 
I might argue it's still a lot of weight just where the boat doesn't want it, but the ability to swivel the engine 360 degrees must be jolly handy. Harrier pilots' motto; ' Happiness Is Vectored Thrust ' :)
 
I wonder why OP thinks it is important to be able to store his boat under cover. I would think any GRP boat could be left outside through winter. That would leave OP open to larger boats. I have a 6.5 m with lift keel (like a dinghy) That makes for a high aspect ratio fin keel and a boat very easy to retrieve onto the trailer. Indeed I can winch it on with the trailer only partially in the water such that bearings are not wet. The keel is ballasted 100kg with more ballast under floor. The end result is a very good performing sail boat. That is self righting. Now I know this is an Oz boat so not seen in Europe but there must be similar available. The down side is that the mast support morfs into 2 supports with space for the keel to come up to the roof and a CB case so access to forward cabin is not so easy. Anyway had it for 39 years now so obviously happy with it. Put it back on the swing mooring last Friday for the new season. About 1.5 hrs from home to back home again. Then blitzed them on Sunday in a race. ol'will
 
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