leaving marina berth - help please

michaelchapman said:
So I would loop a bow line around a cleat on the pontoon.
You have several choices:-

2) Attach the bow line to the stern end of the pontoon. I prefer this one. In this case the ideal is to attach the line of a winch, and to motor forward against the bow line using the prop wash to keep the stern aligned. A crew member then winches the boat out of the berth a little bit at a time. Alternatively you can back out until the bows are getting dangerously close to your neighbour, the crew member quickly snatches in all the slack, takes a turn around a cleat and you motor forward against the line to put the bows back upwind. This will probably work fine in 20knots. In 30 knots you will probably be winching.
Little by little you will get the boat out of the berth under control. This is the technique we use most often when we have to..
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That would be my option - keep the forward spring attached to the bow of the boat, run it around the aft pontoon cleat and forward-and-back through the guardrails to a primary winch. Take the slack in when going astern and be ready to give it yank as midships passes the end of the finger, to pull the bow back in line. Once your bow is clear of adjacent boats stern, let slip and let your boat weathercock stern to the wind.
 
CFarr said:
Thanks Starfire but, how do I easily stop the bow blowing onto the adjacent boat and keep the stern from blowing off until I have sufficient way on for the rudder to bite?
Forgot to mention - really novice crew!
Cheers
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Bav's have quite high freeboards so we all have to back out in situations like yours. The trick is to apply the power early from the word go and then ease down as she tracks the way you want, applying short bursts of power when you feel she's "going her own way". This way the engine pushes water over the keel and rudder, so they can do their job. Takes nerve, I know, but it is the way....

Eyes up! It is of the essence that some captain calamity does not just pop out as you let go and start your manoeuvre! This way you lose everything including dignity...

Sometimes it's necessary to "angle" her as much as possible whilst still in the berth, using expendable crew to take the strain (more expendable than your topsides, of course!) with fenders strategically placed.

In extremis, use a light line (it runs out better than a fat 14mm hawser!) to pivot. And be prepared to drop the line (as in good bye!) to get that extra angle, if it can't be recovered without complications.

Years ago in Stralsund in N Germany I faced a very difficult wind-blasted cramped exit, and rigged a line etc, ready with lots of power (I do take my own advice!) The outcome? I had to push the power to the limit to drag her out, the valliant crew held on to the pivot line and took a bad burn to the hand. So guess what, I keep the line solution well in reserve....

Good luck,

PWG
 
dont worry about the bow blowing off - just have someone there with a fender to prevent damage. there's nothing wrong with "leaning" on other moored boats provided you dont damage them.

boats arent like cars - you cant stop them drifting sideways in the wind
 
MoodyNick said:
The first thing I would do before getting into this situation again is to go and buy two more warps.

You shouldn't be using one line for two jobs, even though a lot of people do.

OOps sorry, just read that it's a charter boat - check the inventory before you set off, next time.
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I do all my sailing on charter boats, some better equipped than others. Yes, you need more than two warps. Not so much for handling, but if you've only got two warps, how do you move one of them? So nowadays when I go on to an unknown boat I take a spare warp with me. Not a great thick mooring warp; 15-20m of 10mm line. Something that's amply strong enough to stand all the normal loads, though it might not stand up to stopping a 10 ton boat doing 4 knots. Wait for the next boat show and have a good look through the boxes of reel ends.

There's a classic Irish joke about "You want to go to X? I wouldn't start from here!" I can't help feeling that I'm giving similar advice; I wouldn't start from the position given in the original post. You really need to know more about a boat's close-quarters behaviour before you face such an awkward situation. As a charterer you are in a much better position to learn about it than are most own-boat sailors. Every time you take out a different boat you get the chance to learn a different behaviour pattern, but only if you deliberately set out to 'waste' some time in doing so.

Get yourself a dan buoy. Lump of polystyrene foam with an 8ft bamboo cane through the middle; flag on the top end, lump of old iron on the bottom. Find a reasonably quiet stretch of water. Drop the dan buoy, then use it as a marker while you manoeuvre the boat round it in different wind directions.

Find out how the boat wants to lie if it's completely stopped. Try accelerating away from the stopped position, ahead and astern, with different helm positions. Try figure-of-eights, ahead and astern, initially with reasonable speed, then slower and slower. Feel the load on the helm when you're going astern; don't let it take charge. See if there is a minimum manoeuvring speed. How does the wind affect that speed? Try Jimi's 'stern boring'; does it work? (Incidentally, I've been an instructor for 28 years and have heard the term for the first time in this thread.)

Don't keep it to yourself; you said you have a novice crew, let them have a go. The best way to learn is to try to teach!
 
peterb said:
You really need to know more about a boat's close-quarters behaviour before you face such an awkward situation. As a charterer you are in a much better position to learn about it than are most own-boat sailors. Every time you take out a different boat you get the chance to learn a different behaviour pattern, but only if you deliberately set out to 'waste' some time in doing so.
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Thanks Peterb. I know what you mean and I've heard the advice before but, When people say 'take the boat out into clear water first and get used to how she handles in different conditions, going astern etc' don't they realise you actually have to extricate the bloody thing that you've never sailed before from it's crammed berth in a difficult wind in the first place?
Where does the forward and reverse gear bight?
How much way does she need on to steer?
How much will she blow off?
Etc., etc.
I know I'll get it in the end but as a new charteree it really is disconcerting, especially when the charterer just chucks the keys at you and buzzes off after the briefest of hand-overs.

I really appreciate everyone's replies and will take the rest of the week off to pick the bones out of it all but as a friend of mine said last night after reading all the different recomendations... it seems for us mere mortals that sailing is more of an art than a science!

Thanks again
I'll be back
 
I'm with Jimi on this one.... with a modern AWB that will probably drive as well backwards as forwards, a fast reverse out would be the safest option IMHO, and then let her weathercock slowly... only extra thing I would add would be to run her in reverse for a few seconds while still tied up, and then stick her back in neutral before slipping lines.... helps to get some water flowing over the rudder, and gives you a vital second or two gained before steerage is achieved....

The fast out, and then weathercock is exactly what I do, and my berth is virtually identical to the one shown in the OP's diagram, and also has a prevailing wind in the same direction too..... I do however have plenty of fenders, and make sure the stb side is as well fendered up as the port side...
 
Morgana said:
I'm with Jimi on this one.... with a modern AWB that will probably drive as well backwards as forwards, a fast reverse out would be the safest option IMHO, and then let her weathercock slowly... only extra thing I would add would be to run her in reverse for a few seconds while still tied up, and then stick her back in neutral before slipping lines.... helps to get some water flowing over the rudder, and gives you a vital second or two gained before steerage is achieved....

The fast out, and then weathercock is exactly what I do, and my berth is virtually identical to the one shown in the OP's diagram, and also has a prevailing wind in the same direction too..... I do however have plenty of fenders, and make sure the stb side is as well fendered up as the port side...
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Agree entirely, I'd be coming out of there like a cork out of a bottle, then I'd be in Neutral as soon as my bow had cleared the other boat.
 
Please don't do what one charterer did a couple of years ago (little wind and cocked up coming into a berth though) - forward and back on the engine - full throw both ways as quickly as he could manage .... then wondered why the engine stopped - just as he had been going full astern .... and bashed into another boat ...

luckily we were just observers and neither boat was ours! :)
 
Dockhead said:
Once you've got way on and have steering authority, you should have no trouble getting the stern to come around to starboard, putting the bow, not the stern into the wind by putting the helm to starboard, which will lessen, instead of exacerbating the tendency of the bow to smash into the boat next to you.
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Are you in the GRP repair business and looking for work??? :D

In 20 odd knts of breeze you'll be fighting a loosing battle trying to get the bow through the wind.

You have to reverse a boat around against it's prop walk, you'll need room to get water passing over the rudder in order to do this, and for that you need space to build up speed, which you don't have.

The Bav has a shallow forefoot, and high topsides in comparison and the bow will just bow off down wind. The prop walk will exaggerate this effect by kicking the stern to port. Go with it and just reverse out of the berth and marina backwards

If you haven't watched the vid we did on prop walk it will show you what happens.



In the first 35 second you'll see why it will be easy go with the stern into the wind, the boat will swivel around in no time...you just have to remember that the boat in the vid kicks to stb
 
SolentBoy said:
Fascinating thread.

Some poor chap asks how to get out of a marina berth and there are 50 different suggestions.

Who said sailing was easy?
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I have always said the sailing is easy- it is the parking that's a bugger !
Great thread, and am learning from you all......


OP I also feel your Pain with the problems of Chartering. Novice crew (and skipper!), Bare minimum Fenders, less than Minimum Warps, and little knowledge of how she will go.

The Bav I just had on Charter died mid way through the 'Extraction from Pontoon' on the first morning.

What f'ing stupid place to have an engine Kill switch on a boat, right next to your sodding knees..... :(
 
snooks said:
Are you in the GRP repair business and looking for work??? :D

In 20 odd knts of breeze you'll be fighting a loosing battle trying to get the bow through the wind.

You have to reverse a boat around against it's prop walk, you'll need room to get water passing over the rudder in order to do this, and for that you need space to build up speed, which you don't have.

The Bav has a shallow forefoot, and high topsides in comparison and the bow will just bow off down wind. The prop walk will exaggerate this effect by kicking the stern to port. Go with it and just reverse out of the berth and marina backwards

If you haven't watched the vid we did on prop walk it will show you what happens.



In the first 35 second you'll see why it will be easy go with the stern into the wind, the boat will swivel around in no time...you just have to remember that the boat in the vid kicks to stb
Click to expand...

"Expert on Board with Tom Cunliffe". Who did he have with him, then? :D
 
Ubergeekian said:
Where is it used? Google doesn't seem to have heard of it. What does it mean, for that matter?
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Bit sad really that if google has'nt heard of something then it does'nt exist.

It's quite simply a term used that describes exploiting the tendency of a boat's stern to seek the wind by reversing into the wind. It implies movement by the boat. Weathercocking implies a static boat where the bow is blown off.

Hope that helps.


I'm astounded that so many have'nt heard of the term.
 
The phrase is probably derived from the verb "bear" and its past derivative "bore". The bows bore down on the hapless jimi as his crew applied reverse thrust in a desperate attempt to not run him down .
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
The phrase is probably derived from the verb "bear" and its past derivative "bore". The bows bore down on the hapless jimi as his crew applied reverse thrust in a desperate attempt to not run him down .
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I think it derives from either:
1) Bore as in drill a hole in a hard substance.. boring into the wind seems quite an apt phrase sometimes!
or
2) Bore as in tedious .. the club bore emanated a continuous stream of hot air from both main orifices .. well maybe not
 
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