Leaking Calor gas bottle

[Leighb]

We had a gas leak on board last week. In the middle of cooking supper the supply ran out, I changed over the bottles, relit the oven and burners and a few minutes later all hell broke loose from the gas alarm.

We turned everything off, including the bottle, opened all hatches, lifted floorboards and pumped away on both bilge pumps for quite a while. The alarm stopped quite soon. We then left everything and went ashore to the marina restaurant for a meal.

Investigation has shown that the culprit was the NEW gas bottle. It leaks from the valve as soon as it is turned on and presumably the gas was coming out faster than the gas locker drain could cope so the locker filled and overflowed into the bilges and set off the alarm. The alarm cut off the supply to the cooker but did not of course stop the leakage directly from the bottle.

We are not in the habit of turning off the main gas valve except when we leave the boat as we can turn the supply on and off from the galley. However we are going to have to rethink this perhaps?

Have any others experienced a similar scenario or is this a real one-off situation?

Incidentally MDL at Woolverstone, who did not supply the faulty bottle, have exchanged it for another full one for which I had to pay the normal charge, but said that when Calor have checked the faulty one they should get a credit and I will be refunded.

 

[sailorman]

We had a gas leak on board last week. In the middle of cooking supper the supply ran out, I changed over the bottles, relit the oven and burners and a few minutes later all hell broke loose from the gas alarm.

We turned everything off, including the bottle, opened all hatches, lifted floorboards and pumped away on both bilge pumps for quite a while. The alarm stopped quite soon. We then left everything and went ashore to the marina restaurant for a meal.

Investigation has shown that the culprit was the NEW gas bottle. It leaks from the valve as soon as it is turned on and presumably the gas was coming out faster than the gas locker drain could cope so the locker filled and overflowed into the bilges and set off the alarm. The alarm cut off the supply to the cooker but did not of course stop the leakage directly from the bottle.

We are not in the habit of turning off the main gas valve except when we leave the boat as we can turn the supply on and off from the galley. However we are going to have to rethink this perhaps?

Have any others experienced a similar scenario or is this a real one-off situation?

Incidentally MDL at Woolverstone, who did not supply the faulty bottle, have exchanged it for another full one for which I had to pay the normal charge, but said that when Calor have checked the faulty one they should get a credit and I will be refunded.

The protective plastic with every new butane bottle has within it a new rubber seal / gasket for you to use when you change the bottle

 

[catlotion]

We had the same with a propane bottle. I thought it was a fault with the regulator but worked out it was the bottle valve itself. You'd think there'd be a better testing regime...

 

[omega2]

We had the same but it was the regulator at fault, they recommend changing them at specific intervals, see the web site.

 

[Leighb]

I should have said it was propane, not butane, so no rubber seal as the connection to the regulator is entirely different.

omega2, the regulator was replaced in 2011 and is one of the new GasBoat type from Will Hayward. Incidentally the faulty bottle was bought at Bradwell!

 

[omega2]

I should have said it was propane, not butane, so no rubber seal as the connection to the regulator is entirely different.

omega2, the regulator was replaced in 2011 and is one of the new GasBoat type from Will Hayward. Incidentally the faulty bottle was bought at Bradwell!

I get mine from Wickford!! but agree they should be all checked as safe. Have you tested the regulator joint with soapy water? or the valve on the bottle same method. Do not use a lighted match LOL

 

[Pasarell]

I had exactly the same experience in July with 2 propane bottles and posted here about it. Both came to my local dealer from Southampton Calor Gas and both were newly refurbished, newly painted and with new valves. The person I get them from is a boat gas fitter and was horrified that he had supplied them although he couldn't have known about the problem without connecting the cylinder to something and turning the valve on. He immediately changed my fairly new fittings before connecting the 2nd bottle with exactly the same result. After that there was a fairly direct phone conversation with Calor! The first faulty valve was found when the gas alarm went off and then I realised the cockpit and gas locker were full of gas, resulting in a lot of ventilating, lifting cabin soles etc. The second was much more obvious. As soon as the valve was opened you could smell the gas escaping so all switched off and removed from the boat before it got as far as the alarm.
At the time someone said they have a dual sensor alarm with one sensor in the gas locker which seemed like a sensible idea.

 

[Jim@sea]

I always turn the gas off at the bottle. Ever since between Holyhead & Liverpool I went below to put the kettle on. There was a big bang and flames, I ran past my mate on the helm and he thought I was jumping overboard. I was going to the gas locker to switch the gas off at the bottle. (it was a faulty gas pipe behind the cooker)

 

[saltylegs]

I may be biased, I work for Calor.

First, any Calor dealer should replace a suspect cylinder with a new one, label the old one as faulty and return to Calor.

I have also come across the odd propane and butane connection leaking on connection to a new cylinder.

When connecting new cylinder always check the joint with leak detection fluid (LDF), soapy water after turning on the cylinder (I keep a small bottle in gas locker)

If its butane then it is usually a damaged rubber seal (this should be visually checked every time you change cylinder) if it is damaged then you can fit a new seal you will find one on the sealing ring with the new cylinder.

If its propane then it is normally down to a damaged or dirty POL connector (the domed end of the regulator connector).
1 when changing cylinder it is possible to drop the connection to the floor of the gas locker and pick up a bit of dirt this then gets transferred to the internal face of the cylinder valve causing a bad seal. (undo connection and clean both surfaces with a cloth and test/try again).
2 A piece of dirt or swarf may have been picked up by the sealing plug at the fill plant and transferred as above (same remedy as above)
3 It is also possible that the POL may be damaged/scratched (this can sometimes be remedied with a bit of work with fine emery paper or better still replacement)
4 With any of the above this can result in damage to the internal surface of the valve, if this is the case return to Calor dealer for replacement cylinder.

I now use a regulator with a rubber face as it gives a good seal without the need for tools, but should be checked more often for wear and tear and cannot be replaced as easily as a butane seal and normally means a new regulator.

On testing by Calor (the last time I was in a filling plant anyway) when the cylinder is filled LDF is used to check for leaks, any leaking connections are sent to be refurbed.

Again always check final connection to cylinder with LDF after turning on the cylinder.

 

[Pasarell]

Thanks for that information Saltylegs.

When I disconnect a cylinder I always wipe the POL before putting into the new cylinder. My original one was about 18 months old. When I had a problem with the first "new cylinder" the first thing my dealer (also a friend) did was make up a new hose and POL in case the old one was damaged. He then got another "new" cylinder from his stock and brought it down to the boat.
First he reconnected the original cylinder and tested with soapy water. The leak was slow but steady. He then put the new hose and POL on and retested with exactly the same result.
Then he connected the cylinder just taken from his store and soapy water was not needed. You could hear the leak and the smell was instantly apparent.
Then he got another new cylinder from his store, but this time one that had not been refurbished with a new valve in it, and there was no leak.
Both cylinders were immediately marked as faulty and put in a quarantine area before going back to Calor later that day. I understand the dealer also went and checked other boats he had recently supplied new cylinders for and found a 3rd leaking cylinder, also a refurbished one with a new valve.
I don't know what other action was taken by Calor but it would appear they had a batch of faulty valves that had been fitted to refurbished cylinders. Or I was the victim of an extraordinary coincidence.
I didn't do the soapy water test before when connecting a new cylinder but will do so in future. The bottle is next to the cylinders in the gas locker!

 

[earlybird]

The OP said that the new cylinder leaked from the valve. Initially I wondered if this leak was from the valve stem, but it seems that it wasn't. However, does anyone know how the cylinder valve stem is sealed? Perhaps it's some sort of glandless design, otherwise there would be a potential leak-path all the while that the valve is open.
Just curious.

 

[Leighb]

Thanks Saltylegs, I did check the connector surface and cleaned it which I do as a routine when I change cylinders. Once a satisfactory cylinder had been fitted there was no further leak. The faulty cylinder must surely have been leaking at the valve gland as there was no leak with the valve OFF but leakage as soon as it was turned ON.

The cylinder did appear to have been a refurbished one with a new valve fitting similar to the ones you describe. Perhaps part of the same batch?

 

[saltylegs]

The OP said that the new cylinder leaked from the valve. Initially I wondered if this leak was from the valve stem, but it seems that it wasn't. However, does anyone know how the cylinder valve stem is sealed? Perhaps it's some sort of glandless design, otherwise there would be a potential leak-path all the while that the valve is open.
Just curious.

From memory the cylinder valves are double "O" ring sealed (Nitrile I think) there is no longer a packing gland.
It is possible that if both rings failed or the stem was damaged/poorly made that you would get a gas release through the spindle (another good reason to ensure cylinders are upright) however when the valve is closed gas can no longer pass into the spindle area as seems to have been what happened to Leighb.

regards.

Salty.

 

[Leighb]

Sorry Salty, you must have misunderstood my original post. There was no leakage when the valve was closed, but as soon as it was opened gas escaped from the bottle, not the union with the regulator as was proven by fitting a different new bottle.

 

[saltylegs]

Hi Leighb
That's what I meant it seems the gas escaped through the spindle (not the POL connection) with a break down of the internal seals or a badly machined/damaged spindle.
By closing the valve, it then prevents the gas entering the body of the valve.

 

[[2574]]

I've had the same issue with a Propane cylinder recently. I could smell gas. The bubble tester showed the leak must be upstream of it (no bubbles) so put some spit around the connector - and got bubbles. Removed fitting, refitted and tightened - no leak. Good idea about having LDF on board; I'll buy some and keep in the gas locker.

I have fitted a solenoid valve in the gas locker so supply is switched off (conveniently from the galley) directly after use. Turned off at the bottle when leaving the boat.

Finally bubble testers are worth every single penny....but that's another story.

 

[Leighb]

Further to our gas leak scare, we had the system pressure tested today and to our relief there was no sign of any leakage. The leaking bottle was the only source of gas so we can use our cooker again.

 

[sailorman]

Further to our gas leak scare, we had the system pressure tested today and to our relief there was no sign of any leakage. The leaking bottle was the only source of gas so we can use our cooker again.

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