Lazy Jack Block Positioning

[conks01]

Hi,

I have a 23' Westerly Pageant and fitted a stack pack supplied by Crusader Sails last year.

I followed the installation instructions as provided (see link further below).

During the course of last season the head of the main sail kept getting caught on where I had positioned the mast turning blocks. I fitted the blocks either side on the mast, approx 2' above the spreaders.

If sailing with crew it was not so much of an issue as I would go forward whilst my crew mate helmed to keep the boat head to wind but when sailing single handed it did not always work!

The boat is currently out of the water on hardstanding in the yard and I have fitted a autohelm and will be getting all lines back to cockpit. The idea is when we are craned in (early April) I can keep the boat dead on to wind when raising, and all from the cockpit.

However I'm wondering whether I need to reposition the Lazy Jack mast turning blocks to the underside of the spreaders instead of their current position on the mast? There are pad eyes to receive on th spreaders, half way across each.

There seems to be different opinions on here.

I've included below the link to Crusaders installation sheet:
Crusader Sails Lazy Jack Installation

Many thanks.

 

[scottie]

Are you sure the pad eyes are for this purpose
they could be for signal flags etc not suitable for lazy jacks

 

[Bobc]

Yes, about a third of the way out on each speaker will make it easier

 

[NormanS]

The boat doesn't have to be head to wind. The boom does.
Mine are attached above the spreaders, but are hitched out slightly by ties out on the spreaders.

 

[conks01]

Are you sure the pad eyes are for this purpose
they could be for signal flags etc not suitable for lazy jacks

Yes thanks and probably not but there isn't a massive weight being attached so don't think this will be an issue.

 

[scottie]

Yes thanks and probably not but there isn't a massive weight being attached so don't think this will be an issue.

Load on sail whilst hoisting may well surprise you also middle of spreader could be further out than you might want

 

[NormanS]

Load on sail whilst hoisting may well surprise you also middle of spreader could be further out than you might want

Mine are hitched out toward eyes on the underside of the spreaders. It helps to spread the lazy jacks, to make hoisting sail easier without the battens catching. If your sail is exerting a load on the lazy jacks, you're doing something wrong.

 

[dunedin]

Ours are on the underside of the spreaders, but only about 20cm out (on a spreader perhaps 1.3m). The middle of the spreader is too far out, as will inhibit the boom swinging and put too much stress on the spreader
(Actually we don’t have a pulley as simply fixed to a deadeye under the spreader)

 

[Daydream believer]

The sail should not put any weight on the spreader. That should only support the bag. Do not have the lines taught. My lines are attachs approx 200mm out from the mast on the underside of the spreaders. The ends of my spreaders are not fixed & after 19 years show no sign of issues.
The problem is normally the way in which the lines are set up. The line should not form a straight line from the outer end of the boom (or bag) to the spreader. It should form a curve. Set them up so that the leech clears the lower part of the lazy jacks by the time the sail is half way, or less up the mast.
If the line runs straight from the end of boom to spreader the sail will have to go higher to clear.
It does not have to do this because when the sail drops it is only the bottom part of the lazy jacks that do the gathering of the sails
You can play about with the lower loops of the lines to move the upper line closer to the mast.
Do not have the bag held up too tight. It only puts a strain on the stitching.
Set properly you will be able to leave them set all season & not have to adjust them during sailing.
Some people advocate moving them to the mast. That may be OK if there is no bag but it is usually due to poor setup in the first place. The cords do not cause any wear on the sails so that is not an issue either. I sail SH so would not want to faff with lazy jacks every time I hoisted the sails.

 

[srm]

I have had lazyjack blocks about a third of the way out on the spreaders of three different boats, all used for coastal and offshore sailing. However, and this is important, the outer end of the spreader must be secured to the cap shroud to prevent it being pulled down and eventually endangering the mast. If your spreaders do not have tight end clamps I found a pair of ss U bolt clamps of the type used for making eyes in flexible rope secured under the spreader end solved the problem. Position the clamps with the U outward and the nuts and threaded length below the spreader. As a precaution encase clamp and spreader end with anti chafe/snag protection (self amalgamating tape or such like).

The wider span at the top of the lazy jacks simplifies raising the main. however, there are times (usually while singlehanded) when I put the boat on a close reach under headsail, slack off the lee lazyjack back to the mast, raise the sail, then set up the lazy jack again.

 

[NormanS]

I wouldn't recommend having lazy jacks suspended directly from the spreaders, but the same spreading effect can be achieved if the lazy jack is attached to the mast above the spreader, and then pulled out 8" or so by ties to eyelets on the spreaders. This helps to prevent batten ends fouling the lazy jacks when the sail is being raised.

 

[Daydream believer]

I wouldn't recommend having lazy jacks suspended directly from the spreaders, but the same spreading effect can be achieved if the lazy jack is attached to the mast above the spreader, and then pulled out 8" or so by ties to eyelets on the spreaders. This helps to prevent batten ends fouling the lazy jacks when the sail is being raised.

Mine have been on the spreaders for 19 years with no ill effects & the ends of the spreaders are not fixed. So I think it depends on the quality of spreader & spreader root. Having an11/12 rig I do sometimes put a lot of strain on the spreader in the fore & aft direction. There is 50mm of pre bend & 150mm of bend with max backstay applied. Normally to flatten the sail to avoid an early reef.

 

[Bodach na mara]

If the head of the sail is getting caught then you are seriously off the wind. Also there can be a considerable loading on the supporting lines if you require to raise the dropped sail to be on the centre line and I would not like to have this load applied to the spreaders.

Mind you I am dealing with a larger fully battened sail on my Seahawk and my problem on raising is that the top two battens tend to catch. I normally have the mate steering but sometimes use the autopilot. The sail is a brute to hoist as without the battens and their cars it weighs 24 kg!

 

[Daydream believer]

If the head of the sail is getting caught then you are seriously off the wind. Also there can be a considerable loading on the supporting lines if you require to raise the dropped sail to be on the centre line and I would not like to have this load applied to the spreaders.

What causes the load on the lines when head to wind?

 

[Seashoreman]

I've included below the link to Crusaders installation sheet:
Crusader Sails Lazy Jack Installation

Many thanks.
[/QUOTE]

BTW that link doesnt work. It is a request to access Google Drive or something complicated.

 

[Bodach na mara]

What causes the load on the lines when head to wind?

I wasn't clear. There is little or no load on the jackstay lines when you're hoisting the sail as you usually slacken them off. It is when the sail has been lowered into the sail cover and you then need to tighten the lines to get the cover zipped up the the load is on.

 

[Daydream believer]

I wasn't clear. There is little or no load on the jackstay lines when you're hoisting the sail as you usually slacken them off. It is when the sail has been lowered into the sail cover and you then need to tighten the lines to get the cover zipped up the the load is on.

. I never have to adjust my lazy jacks after initial set up at the start of the season. Any weight of the boom is taken on my topping lift. If you do not have one, then one assumes that you have a rigid vang strut.
I do not understand why you have to tighten the lazy jacks to zip the cover up? Surely you just pull the 2 halves together. If it is a case of load on the zip then the following may help.

I do not always zip up in rough weather but I do solve the problem of holding the sail in the bag & it maybe of use to you. I just fasten some ball & eye straps across the sail. They are set so that when i do fasten the zip there is no load on the zip. I can do these up with one hand whilst holding on with the other (I have modified a little)
When leaving port I unzip ready, then all I have to do is nip forward, release the hooks with a quick flick & go back to the cockpit. No messing about running the zip along a swinging boom.
I amposting because if of no use to you, it may help others reading this post

 

[wallacebob]

I set up my Pageant according to Barton guides on their site. They do say if there are issues add a loop of bungee to separate main lines; this can be to the spreader eyes. I need to be head to to get proper easy drop, with lines loose, but topping lift tight.