JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
A fair summary, I think.
Lassoing a buoy
- Thread starter Cathy*
- Start date
A fair summary, I think.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's just what I do, singlehanded. I also used it when my crew was titchy, but he is now well able to pick up (or thread through) a mooring, so The Magic Rope (TM) is kept as Plan B.
Zing
Well-Known Member
With crew it’s easy, but I occasionally pick up buoys sailing solo with no strop or pick up buoy and which are too heavy to lift. I have a big heavy boat with lots of freeboard. It is a big challenge, especially with a lot of wind. The buoy goes out of sight 10m off the bow, then you have to guess how long to power on and what course to take and what direction you will drift all completely blind.
A lasso does work, but is hit and miss. also I realise it is not nice to the buoy. I don’t do it now. I can just about reach down midships to attach a line from the bow, that works, not 100% but it is precarious and very difficult.
The best solution by far is the moorfast device as mentioned by several others. A quantum amount easier. That’s standard practice now. A bespoke dynema strop to the midships cleat with a loop on the end. I hook on in a few seconds if positioned accurately, then make up two proper non chafing lines to a shackle at my leisure.
A lasso does work, but is hit and miss. also I realise it is not nice to the buoy. I don’t do it now. I can just about reach down midships to attach a line from the bow, that works, not 100% but it is precarious and very difficult.
The best solution by far is the moorfast device as mentioned by several others. A quantum amount easier. That’s standard practice now. A bespoke dynema strop to the midships cleat with a loop on the end. I hook on in a few seconds if positioned accurately, then make up two proper non chafing lines to a shackle at my leisure.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
That'll be me, then. No need to be coy. You may also have noticed that I said that when I cock up a mooring approach I do it again. And again, if necessary. My record is five passes at my own mooring, though in my own defence another unlicenced one had been dropped right next to mine and I had to get my 8m boat into a 10m gap directly downwind of my buoy. Of course the easy way out would have been to use the engine, but (a) that's no fun and (b) I'm never going to get better if I wimp out every time things get a little tricky.
Edit: The answer turned out to be going past the buoy and approaching it from the shore side. I had to watch the depth, carefully, but as my mooring is almost the closest inshore it gave - literally - more room for manoeuvre.
So yes, given that I don't pretend to be perfect and that I continually try to improve my sailing skills, I don't see anything inconsistent in suggesting that those who cannot stop their boat at a mooring learn to do so. The same goes for marina berths, by the way. I am amazed by the number of skippers of modern, manoeuvrable boats I see who depend on crew and lines to come to a stop at pontoons.
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ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
So say I'm out in a 28ft 4tonner... And am picking up the pickup by hand... How do I know?
Is stopping alongside and poking a rope through the metal eye not be possible?
Elessar
Well-Known Member
Lovely boat !I seem to get by with a boathook, and have never lassoed anything.
My boat:
55ft, 24 tons. Yours?
mine is
40ft
15 ish tonnes.
Over 6ft freeboard at the lowest point near the stern. More at the bow.
6 paces from the helm to the cockpit where I can lean over the gunwhale.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Anyone got any amusing opinions on fore and aft pile moorings.?
dom
Well-Known Member
Relevance being? Alex Thompson alongside may top sailors have been rescued at some point, as have many other class mariners. JD's post did strike me though:
"...... in my 21' Westerly Jouster. Heading north up the Sound of Islay with 6 knots of spring tide. Forecast said southerly force 3, actual changed quickly to northerly force 6. Trapped in waves later estimated by the lifeboat coxswain as 25 feet high off Port Askaig. .......It took them [RNLI] a while though, because they hadn't expect things to be as bad as they were and lost two crew members overboard just coming across to us. "
So he had strong unforecast wind over tide conditions, building 25' waves (credible 3rd party estimate) in a rocky sound about 1km wide. 25 feet!!
xyachtdave, can I ask if you have ever seen such waves? I've seen them in the open sea many times, but in a confined gully like that, almost certainly replete with standing waves and breaking water, all boiled up by an Atlantic swell funneled down the side of Jura, and in a little 21ft boat !!
I'd say respect to all and well done for staying safe
Elessar
Well-Known Member
With a 7ft freeboard amidships no!
doug748
Well-Known Member
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
It scared the willies out of me, not just then but, as I wrote in that post, for years afterwards. I lost much of my confidence - probably justifiably - and the fact that I had risked not only my own life but those of two friends with me and the two lifeboat crew who went overboard weighed very heavily on my conscience. In fact it wasn't until this summer that I could face trying the Sound of Islay again, and had a very pleasant and peaceful whizz through en route from Colonsay to Gigha.
Elessar
Well-Known Member
I agree with a much of you post but must take issue with your suggestion that anyone who has been rescued is not a good sailor.
The person you are talking about is clearly a very experienced and extremely able sailor. Even if I disagree with him about lassos!!
stu9000
Well-Known Member
I can't see why I would ever lasso as unreliable at best. I just didn't like the tone.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
For those who have nothing better to do . I wrote an article for our club on the subject of boathooks. includes how to moor an old gaffer which is relevant to this thread i think
Boat hooks
Now there’s a subject that can keep the bar pundits at Stone Sailing Club going for ages, In fact any subject draws the crowd in, provided the orator is buying the beers. It is a little known fact that in the ever advancing world of electronics, the humble boathook has not been left behind.
My first hook worked perfectly well. A visit to Thomas Foulkes, under the Leytonstone arches, resulted in a massive, galvanised ex army (Boadicea’s Icean army that is) whaling harpoon, “8 ft broom stick handle 3s 7d extra”. Three hours whittling the end of the stick to get the correct taper to fit, resulted in a 4 ft handle; 3 inch nail sticking out of the side & a wobbly 10Lb lump of metal on the end. One of the most dangerous pikes known to the Romans.
Whoe betide anyone on starboard tack who comes between Simon & his buoy. Full main & topsail set, the crew hanging over the pulpit waving the hook, like Boadicea in full fighting trim, 400 yards from the mooring, shouting “left a bit, right a bit” as they thunders past 50 yards away down wind & down tide , the helm screaming obscenities at his crew for missing the ring.
Some idiot in the RYA has tried to banish one of life’s greatest skills, by doing away with the hook altogether. Instead you can see “RYA approved sailing school dot com” along the East coast with poor souls hanging over the bow trying to lasso the buoy like Roy Rogers riding Trigger. Those that do manage to actually lasso the buoy, & not the prop, and then manage to burst the buoy- leaving the owner wondering where his £ 400-00 of best quality Chinese chain has gone.
Seeing a hole in the market on the Blackwater I flog the chain, so no complaints there, as each year owner after owner come with tales of woe & “Do I have any chain?”, “Oh!! & have you got any buoys left?”
It is a little known fact that the RYA has robbed this from an earlier anchoring technique still practised at Stone.
As we know if you are on starboard tack, running down wind, an old gaffer has right of way over everything in its way, including moored boats. The technique is to let the dinghy out on 200 ft of line (you must have seen old gaffers thus rigged) generally with the wind up the chuff the dinghy will overtake to leeward forming a gigantic bight in the painter. The experienced helm just has to select a plastic fantastic 3 moorings up from his & lasso it with the dinghy, plus the next 2 down the line, thus bringing the heaviest of gaffers to a grinding halt. A leisurely stroll to the bow & our whiskery old salt leans over & gently raises the buoy. “Oh! Have I hooked my dinghy? Sorry old son, Never mind, it will unhook when the tide changes” Just as 3 owners rush for the gel filler & insurance policies
There were 2 designs of hook. One was for swinging mooring owners, which had 2 hooks on the end. You only used one, but two meant more danger with the cat’s cradle getting it out from the bottom of the deepest locker. New crews, eager to please after a day’s cruise, would offer to grab the buoy. More experienced crews would breathe a sigh of relief. Many a novice crew has fallen in to the locker. Sweeny Todd was said to live in a London Street but his counterpart- the owner of an old gaff cutter in Maldon lives on- luring new crew on board, never to be seen again, with the promise of far off lands & hot meat pies at 8 bells.
If you did manage to unwind the tangle of ropes, heaving lines, buckets & lead lines etc & did actually hook the ring, the weight of the old gaffer thundering past the buoy would drag you over the side in a trice. “Don’t you dare drop that hook” was the cry from the helm. Our budding crew had the choice, be dragged over the side & drown or 40 tongue lashings; most went for drowning.
The other type of hook was for dock side dwellers. Fortunately, they rarely went anywhere, preferring to make tarry smells, grow beards & cover the boat in baggy wrinkle, looking to the casual observer like left over tea clipper salts. Anyway, this type of hook has a point & only one hook. This is designed for pushing the boat off just before it crashes into the sea wall. Instead of being pulled over the side the novice crew gets the end of the stick in his stomach & promptly gets pushed over the stern. Pity really, as he does not get the chance to see the bowsprit clear the wall at ankle level & wipe out 3 tourists & a heap of lobster pots the other side of the road.
So, mooring sales apart, there’s a lot to say for the good old hook.
But time moves on & some budding Dyson has decided he can improve on a bit of kit that has lasted generations of old Harry’s. First it was a large detachable gunmetal hook on a stick & attached to a line. Our budding crew just had to lean over, hook the buoy at 6 Knts & disconnect the handle & Bob’s your uncle, just as long as the other end was looped on to the samson post. Old Pete would then do 150 foot pirouettes around the buoy as gaff & topsail did crash gybes decapitating anyone who dared look above the gunwale. Here in St Lawrence Bay it is quite normal for the salts to start the season moored to the east of the club & by October they will be just off Osea pier 3 miles to the west. “Stan – we must do something about the size of these sinkers -I think I’ve dragged a bit”
Nowadays we have super plastic contraptions that threadle the line , bring it back to the boat, tie a bowline , drop the sail & make the tea - all for a meer hundred quid or so.
In the old days if you could not afford a new boat hook you moored just below one of the other cruisers & wait for one to come bobbing down tide like a broad’s fisher’s pike float. They all came from Thomas Foulkes so no one could tell who’s they really were; besides ,to admit you had just thrown it over the side cost more in thank you beers & embarrassment than the actual hook. If you lost yours you just had to move down tide & wait for another.
Nowadays it’s different. You have to buy the dearest hook possible just in case the bloke 100yds downstream catches it & he would see the price tag & nod with envy. The size of boat isn’t an issue any more; it’s the size of your buoy & boat hook. I just wish they would attach the instructions in waterproof paper so I could work out how to use them.
Boat hooks
Now there’s a subject that can keep the bar pundits at Stone Sailing Club going for ages, In fact any subject draws the crowd in, provided the orator is buying the beers. It is a little known fact that in the ever advancing world of electronics, the humble boathook has not been left behind.
My first hook worked perfectly well. A visit to Thomas Foulkes, under the Leytonstone arches, resulted in a massive, galvanised ex army (Boadicea’s Icean army that is) whaling harpoon, “8 ft broom stick handle 3s 7d extra”. Three hours whittling the end of the stick to get the correct taper to fit, resulted in a 4 ft handle; 3 inch nail sticking out of the side & a wobbly 10Lb lump of metal on the end. One of the most dangerous pikes known to the Romans.
Whoe betide anyone on starboard tack who comes between Simon & his buoy. Full main & topsail set, the crew hanging over the pulpit waving the hook, like Boadicea in full fighting trim, 400 yards from the mooring, shouting “left a bit, right a bit” as they thunders past 50 yards away down wind & down tide , the helm screaming obscenities at his crew for missing the ring.
Some idiot in the RYA has tried to banish one of life’s greatest skills, by doing away with the hook altogether. Instead you can see “RYA approved sailing school dot com” along the East coast with poor souls hanging over the bow trying to lasso the buoy like Roy Rogers riding Trigger. Those that do manage to actually lasso the buoy, & not the prop, and then manage to burst the buoy- leaving the owner wondering where his £ 400-00 of best quality Chinese chain has gone.
Seeing a hole in the market on the Blackwater I flog the chain, so no complaints there, as each year owner after owner come with tales of woe & “Do I have any chain?”, “Oh!! & have you got any buoys left?”
It is a little known fact that the RYA has robbed this from an earlier anchoring technique still practised at Stone.
As we know if you are on starboard tack, running down wind, an old gaffer has right of way over everything in its way, including moored boats. The technique is to let the dinghy out on 200 ft of line (you must have seen old gaffers thus rigged) generally with the wind up the chuff the dinghy will overtake to leeward forming a gigantic bight in the painter. The experienced helm just has to select a plastic fantastic 3 moorings up from his & lasso it with the dinghy, plus the next 2 down the line, thus bringing the heaviest of gaffers to a grinding halt. A leisurely stroll to the bow & our whiskery old salt leans over & gently raises the buoy. “Oh! Have I hooked my dinghy? Sorry old son, Never mind, it will unhook when the tide changes” Just as 3 owners rush for the gel filler & insurance policies
There were 2 designs of hook. One was for swinging mooring owners, which had 2 hooks on the end. You only used one, but two meant more danger with the cat’s cradle getting it out from the bottom of the deepest locker. New crews, eager to please after a day’s cruise, would offer to grab the buoy. More experienced crews would breathe a sigh of relief. Many a novice crew has fallen in to the locker. Sweeny Todd was said to live in a London Street but his counterpart- the owner of an old gaff cutter in Maldon lives on- luring new crew on board, never to be seen again, with the promise of far off lands & hot meat pies at 8 bells.
If you did manage to unwind the tangle of ropes, heaving lines, buckets & lead lines etc & did actually hook the ring, the weight of the old gaffer thundering past the buoy would drag you over the side in a trice. “Don’t you dare drop that hook” was the cry from the helm. Our budding crew had the choice, be dragged over the side & drown or 40 tongue lashings; most went for drowning.
The other type of hook was for dock side dwellers. Fortunately, they rarely went anywhere, preferring to make tarry smells, grow beards & cover the boat in baggy wrinkle, looking to the casual observer like left over tea clipper salts. Anyway, this type of hook has a point & only one hook. This is designed for pushing the boat off just before it crashes into the sea wall. Instead of being pulled over the side the novice crew gets the end of the stick in his stomach & promptly gets pushed over the stern. Pity really, as he does not get the chance to see the bowsprit clear the wall at ankle level & wipe out 3 tourists & a heap of lobster pots the other side of the road.
So, mooring sales apart, there’s a lot to say for the good old hook.
But time moves on & some budding Dyson has decided he can improve on a bit of kit that has lasted generations of old Harry’s. First it was a large detachable gunmetal hook on a stick & attached to a line. Our budding crew just had to lean over, hook the buoy at 6 Knts & disconnect the handle & Bob’s your uncle, just as long as the other end was looped on to the samson post. Old Pete would then do 150 foot pirouettes around the buoy as gaff & topsail did crash gybes decapitating anyone who dared look above the gunwale. Here in St Lawrence Bay it is quite normal for the salts to start the season moored to the east of the club & by October they will be just off Osea pier 3 miles to the west. “Stan – we must do something about the size of these sinkers -I think I’ve dragged a bit”
Nowadays we have super plastic contraptions that threadle the line , bring it back to the boat, tie a bowline , drop the sail & make the tea - all for a meer hundred quid or so.
In the old days if you could not afford a new boat hook you moored just below one of the other cruisers & wait for one to come bobbing down tide like a broad’s fisher’s pike float. They all came from Thomas Foulkes so no one could tell who’s they really were; besides ,to admit you had just thrown it over the side cost more in thank you beers & embarrassment than the actual hook. If you lost yours you just had to move down tide & wait for another.
Nowadays it’s different. You have to buy the dearest hook possible just in case the bloke 100yds downstream catches it & he would see the price tag & nod with envy. The size of boat isn’t an issue any more; it’s the size of your buoy & boat hook. I just wish they would attach the instructions in waterproof paper so I could work out how to use them.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
For comparison, six foot at the bow and about five at the wheel end of the cockpit, where the cockpit sole is a bit higher than in the gorilla pit (Ray Wall thought of everything - you can see right ahead from the wheel and you only get every other wave top over you!
)Shortage of gorillas means that we only get the no.1 genoa out when no.2 son brings his rugger club mates...
johnalison
Well-Known Member
We have for may years brought the mooring buoy alongside somewhere aft of the shrouds, where there is less freeboard and the operation is easier. However, with my wife's replacement knee this is no longer the easy option, though it usually works well enough if I leave the helm and do the job once she has a boathook on the buoy, when I can squat or lie down and do the threading. I can't conceive of a condition except extreme conditions when I might be tempted to lasso the buoy and am prepared to soldier on and struggle when a mooring strop is absent.
Since moorings usually occupy places that were once anchorages, there used to be a custom that there was a natural right to use a mooring buoy, given the normal requirements not to damage it, unless the owner or usual occupant returned. I doubt if it was enshrined in law but it still covers my way of thinking.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Equally, why don’t people who want to pick up mooring buoys (particularly other people’s buoys) not buy the equipment to do this properly and safely. There is NO need to lift a buoy to thread a rope through.
We now have a collection of 4 poles - a conventional one, and two different types of rope threading types - the best being Hook&Moor but keep an old yellow type for rings that are too thick. We also now have a Scandinavian stern buoy hook.
The Ultimate Boat Hook | Extremely easy to use | Hook & Moor
At the end of the mooring ropes we have thin rope loops to tie onto the pole rope, to avoid knots jamming when pulling through.
In 25 years we have never needed to lasso a buoy. Those who want to use (and potentially abuse) other people’s kit should perhaps have the courtesy of investing in proper kit themselves. Then practice with it.
Robin
Well-Known Member
+1
Elessar
Well-Known Member
my “proper kit” is multipurpose and easier to stow than yours. I have a few of them in different sizes.
I can use it to temporarily secure to a cleat before getting off the boat, rather than resorting to the leap and wrangle technique favoured by many sailors. I can then use another as a spring or warp.
I can use it to temporarily secure to a buoy, then use another to properly secure to the buoy.
And when not in use I can tie it to the pushpit or throw it in a locker. It’s almost impossible to break it in the locker.
So much better than gadgets.
doug748
Well-Known Member
I find it a poor business, the few times I have tried it.
Thin rope is affected by the breeze and if it is held up on the merest arc of a round buoy, it is liable to slip off it's shoulder and you end up going around for another shot. If you do score a hit it can tarry on the surface and the retreating boat pulls it away and you go around again, this can happen even if you throw yourself to the deck and attempt to marry to two ends or cross them under the bow, around you go again. Even when you think you have it and turn your back for a moment the line can slacken and throw it's collar and away you go, yet again
Heavy rope is less affected by the wind but more likely to ride back over the buoy. Chain would probably be better but best not mention that.
I can't imagine why anyone would waste time with this method if the mooring has a ring on top
I know all this because I did it last year with my club mooring. They have no ring of any sort and are perfectly spherical inflatable buoys which suspend the heavy chain with maybe a festering metre hanging vertically down for you to retrieve for you pick up gear. Horrid, slimy and wet but my own fault for being too idle to sort it out in advance in a dinghy. Can't say I did any damage to the mooring though.
The idea of lying to a bight in this way is bonkers, even without Jumbleduck's underwater razors
