JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Which is precisely why you (one) shouldn't be lassooing and unfamiliar mooring either: the forces are simply too great. The world is full of devices which make it possible to attach a rope to a buoy in seconds.
Lassoing a buoy
- Thread starter Cathy*
- Start date
Which is precisely why you (one) shouldn't be lassooing and unfamiliar mooring either: the forces are simply too great. The world is full of devices which make it possible to attach a rope to a buoy in seconds.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
The problem, I think, is that the force exerted by a boat hook is naturally limited by the grip of human hands and as a result is generally fine. The force exerted by a lassoo is limited by the breaking strain of ropes and cleats and that is far too high for many buoys.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
laika
Well-Known Member
If you re-read my posts you will see I explicitly state that I am not talking about lassoing or otherwise picking up random moorings which may be too small for the boat. If you have indeed taken note of that and your assertion is that no public/visitor moorings without pickup buoys, expressly stated as being designed for the weight of a particular boat, are capable of holding a boat of supported size via a rope round the riser for 2 minutes while a sailor secures a line to the ring at the top, I declare that to be bunkum.
I also disagree with the implicit suggestion that good seamanship (ie ability to deal with any common boating situation) requires carrying a patent mooring device.
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Poignard
Well-Known Member
I think the idea is that if there's absolutely nothing practicable you can do to prevent people using it, the next best thing is to make sure it is strong enough to cope.
Galling but realistic.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately there are people here talking about moorings and mooring buoys, who have no practical relevant experience about them. An inflatable buoy is perfectly capable of supporting the weight of the riser, but the eye on the buoy is certainly NOT designed to take the weight of a boat. While I very occasionally pick up a visitor mooring, I would never attach my boat to some completely unknown floating buoy, which might, or might not be attached to the seabed. I have an anchor for that.
alexincornwall
Well-Known Member
I’m amazed at some of the comments on this. The OP didn’t raise the issue of lassoing a private mooring, she was asking what type of rope to use.
Putting the ownership of a mooring to one side, lassoing a mooring is a totally useful, legitimate technique which should be, and is taught by the RYA. I was taught this skill (and it is a skill) throughout my Yachtmaster and now as an RYA cruising instructor, It comes early on in my day skipper practical’s.
I agree that private, inflatable moorings would be a no no (for more reasons than one), but some harbour visitors moorings absolutely demand it (Falmouth, Salcombe, St Mary’s etc.),. These moorings are usually very heavy duty, often semi submerged, and without a pick up buoy.
I often sail our 40 foot, semi displacement Bowman with my 12 year old daughter and asking her to approach a mooring like the one I describe above armed with nothing but a boat hook would be an absolute non starter and IMO would represent poor seamanship.
Furthermore, if you have to approach a mooring under sail in a blow for some reason, you’ll be glad to have a good lassoing technique under your belt.
The theory of lassoing is to temporarily make a vessel fast so that a more suitable arrangement can be made without stress or panic. It is not an overnight, or even a cup-of-tea solution.
So to answer Cathy’s question:
It’s not just the rope used, it’s the way the lasso is thrown that makes the difference between success or not.
1) You will need a line that sinks, the faster the better. This won’t work with a floating line
2) Decide which side you’d like to pick up your buoy - usually with the buoy on the windward side. Arrange your line through your windward fairlead and make both ends fast (use both bow cleats if possible).
3) The real trick here is to wet the line (careful of your prop obviously). This will help the line sink faster. The faster it sinks the better.
4) Coil up your line, split the coil in two so that you have a round a half a metre of line separating the two. One coil in each hand obviously.
5) The boat will ideally be completely stopped and positioned with the windward bow around 1 metre from the buoy.
5) Now for the throw. You need to be throwing up and out, not directly to the buoy. A good throw, combined with a wet line should give the arc that you’re looking for.
6) Watch the line sink. You don’t want to take in any line until you’re sure that the line has sufficiently sunk.
7) Now take up one end of the line to take up the slack.
8) Once you are made fast with the buoy positions right under your windward bow, immediately make up a suitable solution using boat hook etc. Remove the lasso and you’re done.
The lasso should be in place for two minutes maximum.
I’m not a mooring engineer but I’d be surprised if this caused any lasting damage. Probably less than a seabed full of bent boat hooks. Or worse...
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Graham376
Well-Known Member
Totally unrealistic to expect owners of small light boats to lay moorings suitable for 20 ton boats just in case one may come along uninvited.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Realistically, we leave a manky old tender chained to ours.
It works.
IT upsets me, because in principle I'm very happy to share my mooring when I'm not using it, I approve of people sailing small boats on the cheap, but I'm not going to subsidise sailing schools which show no respect for mooring owners..
By the way, if you do ever need to lasso a buoy, wet rope does not sink very far very quickly.
You want a weight like a shackle to sink the rope and give it time to sink before any load comes on it.
But even then you risk pulling the seizing wire off the shackles.
Covering the swivel etc under the buoy with snotty tar or grease also has a deterrent effect for repeat offenders.
We considered some sort of rope cutter....
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
My position is simple: don't lassoo unless you know for sure that the mooring can take the forces involved and the owner is happy for you to do so. When you start talking about boats so large and conditions so wild that a crew member could not hold onto the mooring for long enough to tie up, you're talking about forces too big for many moorings. Perhaps the skipper should learn to handle the boat better as well.
Or a piece of rope. I think good seamanship would be thinking about the problem in advance and not relying on a sloppy technique which will damage a substantial proportion of moorings.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
True. I've worked out a design for a lassoo-cutter which I will get onto making as soon as my workshop is less cluttered. It's basically a bobbin with radial blades which fits under the buoy: a lassooing rope rides up to it, meets a blade and Ping!
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Don't do it.
You never - repeat never - need to do it. If the buoy has a strop, pick up the strop with the boathook (you do have a boathook?)
If the buoy has a ring in the top, hook it with the boathook and pass the buoy rope through the ring and bring it back aboard.
A plastic inflatable mooring buoy is never repeat never intended to take the weight of a boat.
You never - repeat never - need to do it. If the buoy has a strop, pick up the strop with the boathook (you do have a boathook?)
If the buoy has a ring in the top, hook it with the boathook and pass the buoy rope through the ring and bring it back aboard.
A plastic inflatable mooring buoy is never repeat never intended to take the weight of a boat.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
I expect nothing.
I am simply pointing out the facts of the situation.
Which are: if you have a mooring and you don't want people to use it and you have no practicable means of preventing them using it, there is nothing you can do to stop them. You are, as they say, pissing against the wind.
If you cannot prevent people doing something, all you can do is to minimise the damage they might cause when they do it.
Or do you have some other practicable solution to the problem?
Poignard
Well-Known Member
dom
Well-Known Member
Hard to disagree with any of that. Me, a 50' boat, 52kg wife, no bow thruster, and all it takes is a little patience:
1. Open the boarding gates
2. Glide up beside said buoy, which she then picks up through the open gate
3. Slowly slide back as she retrieves the mooring strop. (If ring on main buoy, just slide a line through it.)
4. Drop it over the bow cleat
5. That's it!
Interesting thread though; I always though those RYA dinosaurs with their daft buoy-wrecking techniques were figments of the collective imagination!
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
I cannot believe that you intend doing this .
Surely a polite notice on the buoy or a tag saying unsuitable for mooring or private mooring please do not use would I expect be honoured by most people.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
If there is no strop on the buoy, pass the end of a warp that you have already belayed to the mooring cleat and passed outboard of everything through the ring and back to the cleat. Not rocket science
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I m oor to both my moorings singe handed. With the smaller boats it is easy to nose up to the buoy & catch a line with the boathook . However, with my 31 ft yacht I have a rope from the genoa winch to the bow roller & back outside the rails to the cockpit. On the end is a large snap hook which I can fit to a boat hook or hold in my hand.
I come alongside the buoy under engine ( hardest bit is getting it the right side). I have to lean right out under the guard rail but can hook the ring on the buoy Ok.---Or the loop on the pick up line if it is fitted, which is a bonus.
Before the boat can do any pirouettes etc I go into reverse for a second or two. Then knock it out of gear & wind furiously on the genoa winch.
Once the rope is near the bow I get forward ASAP , check how much I have to pull the buoy to be able to reach the ring. Go back wind in the last bit. Go to the bow & pass a line through the ring & tie off. ( Or retieve the pick up lines & secure those) Go back to the cockpit & let the original rope of . Back to the bow & release the hook.
Breath a sigh of relief & feel happy that I can still do it first go every time.
I come alongside the buoy under engine ( hardest bit is getting it the right side). I have to lean right out under the guard rail but can hook the ring on the buoy Ok.---Or the loop on the pick up line if it is fitted, which is a bonus.
Before the boat can do any pirouettes etc I go into reverse for a second or two. Then knock it out of gear & wind furiously on the genoa winch.
Once the rope is near the bow I get forward ASAP , check how much I have to pull the buoy to be able to reach the ring. Go back wind in the last bit. Go to the bow & pass a line through the ring & tie off. ( Or retieve the pick up lines & secure those) Go back to the cockpit & let the original rope of . Back to the bow & release the hook.
Breath a sigh of relief & feel happy that I can still do it first go every time.
Elessar
Well-Known Member
Neither rocket science nor possible on many decent sized boats.
I lasso and will continue to do so.
i would however never do this to a buoys marked as private or an unknown buoy not suitable for a boat of my size.
The popcorn brigade seem to assume that those who employ the best practice of temporarily lassoing a buoy whilst making fast properly would lasso a floating coke bottle if they saw it.
You can damage a mooring with an oversized boat however you attach yourself to it.
2 different issues.
