MikeBz
Well-Known Member
I agree, but I suspect the question was an out-of-curiosity-what’s-the legality-of-doing-it rather than a can-I-do-it.
Large logs blown ashore, Isle of Wight
- Thread starter Greenheart
- Start date
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Hmm, trouble is, the more the worthless letter of the law is discussed and scrutinised, the more cornered we're inclined to feel, not by sensible legislation applied and upheld with public consent, but by what is technically (but not realistically) prohibited by law.
In view of the levels of blatant, heinous criminal activity that the over-pressed police force doesn't even attempt to investigate, it's very unfortunate if genuinely harmless actions are talked-up as things not to be considered by the law-abiding.
If in reasonable doubt, don't check and don't enquire. If you've really put a foot wrong, you may be told. But far more likely, you won't, because nobody else knew either, or cared.
In view of the levels of blatant, heinous criminal activity that the over-pressed police force doesn't even attempt to investigate, it's very unfortunate if genuinely harmless actions are talked-up as things not to be considered by the law-abiding.
If in reasonable doubt, don't check and don't enquire. If you've really put a foot wrong, you may be told. But far more likely, you won't, because nobody else knew either, or cared.
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Slowboat35
Well-Known Member
Regardless of that the salt-infused wood will take forever to dry as salt is deliquescent and the salt, combined with the moisture will destroy your woodburner, fire-grate and possibly flue liner too in short order. Driftwood on a bonfire or campfire is fine, but not in a domestic fireplace.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Deliquescent...great word, thanks for that!
So...a deliquettescen is a store where all the food is salted?
So...a deliquettescen is a store where all the food is salted?
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Well, we used to have an old 60ft converted fishing boat. The multi-fuel stove burned almost exclusively wood from the shore. We carried a chain saw, and cut and split logs in many strange places. The fire, a Morso Squirrel didn't seem to mind at all.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
May 1st.
You were quite right, Mike. 8.31kg has dropped to 6.08kg. I find that pretty astonishing for just 30 days' drying time.
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AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
When on geology field work in Svalbard, many moons ago (1972), we used logs from the sea shore in the iron stoves that equipped cabins used by hunters and as refuges. These were plentiful, even in the inner reaches of fjords. Svalbard has NO trees except for dwarf willow or beech, which is just about big enough to trip over, and even that is confined to the southernmost part of the archipelago.
The logs came down the great rivers of Siberia and were carried across the Arctic ocean in the same manner as Nansen's Fram.
A) they burnt fine - we often had the iron stoves glowing red! And every cabin was equipped with an axe a Viking would be proud of for chopping wood.
B) Any one of them would easily sink a yacht if hit wrong. They would punch a hole at the waterline; they float so keel and most rudders would be safe.
C) I'd imagine the forests of Siberia are a larger source of floating wood than losses from deck cargo or landslides.
D) GRP is probably more resistant, but friends with a plywood boat (60s) were sunk in the North Sea by an encounter with floating timber. In pre VHF days, they were lucky to survive.
The logs came down the great rivers of Siberia and were carried across the Arctic ocean in the same manner as Nansen's Fram.
A) they burnt fine - we often had the iron stoves glowing red! And every cabin was equipped with an axe a Viking would be proud of for chopping wood.
B) Any one of them would easily sink a yacht if hit wrong. They would punch a hole at the waterline; they float so keel and most rudders would be safe.
C) I'd imagine the forests of Siberia are a larger source of floating wood than losses from deck cargo or landslides.
D) GRP is probably more resistant, but friends with a plywood boat (60s) were sunk in the North Sea by an encounter with floating timber. In pre VHF days, they were lucky to survive.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
We used to burn logs from the shore on the West Coast of Scotland. A high proportion of these logs were technically soft wood, but were very close grained, indicating that they had grown in a cold climate. Conversely, many had been attacked by teredo worm, indicating warmer water.
Probably these logs had originated in Labrador, been carried south by the Labrador Current, into the warm waters of the Gulf Stream, which then deposited them on our doorstep. Once dried, they burned excellently.
Probably these logs had originated in Labrador, been carried south by the Labrador Current, into the warm waters of the Gulf Stream, which then deposited them on our doorstep. Once dried, they burned excellently.
jdc
Well-Known Member
I suspect that the absorption of seawater as opposed to osmosis into the cells (which will absorb less salt) is a strong function of the age of the timber and how dry it is when it goes into the sea.
That is to say, if it goes in to the sea when green, and is then fished out and dried out, the wood, at least in its core. will dry quite readily and burn ok - typical for a Siberian tree trunk. But if it's sawn and dried, and then goes into the sea, it will likely absorb a lot of salt deep within it.
I'm only speculating, but how else do we reconcile the posts in this thread on the one hand warning about it burning badly, being deliquescent and ruining the stove with, on the other hand, others' experience that it dries and burns just fine?
That is to say, if it goes in to the sea when green, and is then fished out and dried out, the wood, at least in its core. will dry quite readily and burn ok - typical for a Siberian tree trunk. But if it's sawn and dried, and then goes into the sea, it will likely absorb a lot of salt deep within it.
I'm only speculating, but how else do we reconcile the posts in this thread on the one hand warning about it burning badly, being deliquescent and ruining the stove with, on the other hand, others' experience that it dries and burns just fine?
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Of course, in the Arctic, wood that is above the strand line is effectively freeze-dried.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I would have thought that they would have made a list before they left, so they knew what they had.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
I would have thought that they would have made a list before they left, so they knew what they had.
Oh very 'droll' ........
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
June 1st
Weight of the branch I briefly allowed myself to hope was hardwood, has now dropped to 5.260 kg...so another three-quarters of a litre of dehydration since May 1st, and it's a clear 3kg lighter than when I picked it up off the beach on April 1st.
Weight of the branch I briefly allowed myself to hope was hardwood, has now dropped to 5.260 kg...so another three-quarters of a litre of dehydration since May 1st, and it's a clear 3kg lighter than when I picked it up off the beach on April 1st.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
July 1st
Okay, it's still 30th June, but I'll be too busy tomorrow to tinker in the garage.
The weight of the branch today, really surprised me.
I assure you that my portable scale is new and accurate and not given to errors of any kind...
...but the weight is still 5.260 kg. So, having lost a quarter of its original weight to evaporation in April alone, and another eighth of what remained in May, that process must have ended by June 1st, because no more weight has been lost since, despite the warming weather.
I really thought timber took years to dry. But it's hard to imagine it drying any more, if during a month in a hot dry garage, it didn't even lose 0.01g.
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Okay, it's still 30th June, but I'll be too busy tomorrow to tinker in the garage.
The weight of the branch today, really surprised me.
I assure you that my portable scale is new and accurate and not given to errors of any kind...
...but the weight is still 5.260 kg. So, having lost a quarter of its original weight to evaporation in April alone, and another eighth of what remained in May, that process must have ended by June 1st, because no more weight has been lost since, despite the warming weather.
I really thought timber took years to dry. But it's hard to imagine it drying any more, if during a month in a hot dry garage, it didn't even lose 0.01g.
.
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LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I wonder whether it could be something like the moisture that is trapped between cells is lost rapidly, but the moisture that has been absorbed into cells has to transfer from one cell to the next along repeatedly and hence takes much longer. (Not that I know anything about biology, chemistry or drying wood.)
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Yes, @dancrane has probably got all the free water out, but water trapped in cells or adsorbed onto surfaces will take much longer to remove.
When laboratories are checking water content, they first dry at just over 100°C and weigh to get free water, then repeat at a much higher temperature to get adsorbed water. Wood from a woodyard is often kiln dried, presumably at a temperature much higher than 100°C.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Thanks Antarctic.
Is it possible to estimate how long (if ever) it might be before my branch will fully dry naturally, slung in the rafters of an often-stifling garage?
Is it possible to estimate how long (if ever) it might be before my branch will fully dry naturally, slung in the rafters of an often-stifling garage?
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
No idea, I'm afraid. I'd ask a local saw mill if I were you; they must know how long it takes for wood from a tree to dry naturally. But I expect it depends on the species of the wood. But I think it's years, not months.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
It will never fully dry (except perhaps in an extreme desert environment?), but I imagine it will take an awfully long time to slowly approach the average humidity in the UK, and the previously mentioned deliquescence of the salt in the log (actually at 8kg falling to 5.6kg it can't be a whole log - I don't think you've ever said what it was you'd actually retrieved) will be working against the drying.
I think traditionally trees (that haven't been soaked in fresh or salt water for months/years) intended for burning on domestic fires would be chopped to size, stacked to air, and left for a couple of years to dry out from their living condition moisture, but new regulations in the UK require a lower moisture content than that would normally achieve, so to be sure of meeting the regs they now have to be kiln dried.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
If it's not too long, a domestic oven might make a reasonable kiln!