large amounts of petrol in cans coming onto our marina - HELP

"I understand that fuel is expensive to buy from a marina and being a sailing vessel we only have to put in a small amount of diesel. I have seen people bringing cans down to Torquay and Brixham even though the marinas have signs up banning it - so it goes on everywhere not just on our marina."

Is a Humber 40 a sailing vessel then? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
You could be right - look whaat happens to whistle blowers in public life even where there is a real not just potential problem.
Something along the lines of "As you have lost us the trade of a number of other customers, we will not be able to offer you a mooring next season"
FFS use a bit of tact rather than spouting regulations and involving jobsworths.
mikej
 
Some of you people are unbelievable......You really are.

If the worst thing was to happen, heaven forbid, I wonder what you would be saying then, my guess is you would be nowhere to be found.

I really cannot believe some of the idiotic comments that have been forthcoming on this thread. speaking as a very ex Fire Fighter, I can tell you that some of you make my blood run cold. You are quite frightening.
 
I think the OP has a point regarding the blocking of pontoons etc but also think if they were sailbags then it would have been overlooked.

The fact that they are noisy speedboats hasn't escaped the OP's attention which has made the issue into a rag & stick vs Mobo issue when it could so easily be sailboats refueling there outboards.

The perception of the yacht owner could be refueling is taking place when in reality most of those cans could be portable fuel tanks as used by almost everyone with sportsboat with a decent sized outboard.
Just because they are taken onto the marina doesn't always imply they are going to be decanted into an onboard fueltank.

I think the Term "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut" is appropriate in this situation, a quiet word with the chairman of the berthholders Association or the Marina Manager is all that should have been neccessary.
To make a big issue in the manner thats been taken is not good for anyone, forcing the speedboats to refuel at sea with the pitching & rolling can only end up in one thing, fuel in the bilges.

If anything like MDL there will be firefighting trained staff on hand, equipment along the pontoons & the local firebrigade will have practiced for the scenario, the marina will have done a risk assesment & almost certainly have a designated fueling point, all of which would have been explained if the OP had approached the marina staff.

How pleased do you think the same staff will be to see there local fire officer following a complaint by a berthholder?
It will certainly highlight any shorcomings in policy but at the same time make life intolerable for a great many safety concious owners, including the sailors refueling there outboards.

IMHO fuel should be the same price at the waterside pumps to discourage the need for transporting it but how often would you pull in for a gallon for your 2 stroke tender outboard, I guess the OP like everyone else gets it from their roadside garage on the way to the marina.
 
So in fact, that would appear to have nothing to do with your problem.

***************************************************

Take off your rose tinted specs and lok elswhere....There are further rules limiting how much can be put into cans at garages......and further rules about how much can be carried in cars whare the boot is not a separate compartement from the passenger compartment...Most cars fall foul here as only the back seat seals the gap.....

Quite a few laws being broken here as well as a lack of common sense regarding the lack of suitable electrics in the refuelling area.


It might help if the marina designated an area where this refuelling could take place more safely. Always remember that a static spark or even a faulty digital watch can ignite petrol.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think the Term "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut" is appropriate in this situation, a quiet word with the chairman of the berthholders Association or the Marina Manager is all that should have been neccessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the PO's first post, it is planned to raise it at the next berth holders meeting, he was only trying to find the facts for the meeting.

Can be dangerous to ask a simple question at times on here.

Brian
 
Having re-read the original post I get the impression they have not talked about this to the marina which I thought would be the first thing to do.
The aim of the OP post is to gather as much material facts as possible(ie build the sledgehammer) before the berthholders meeting & as such be in a possition to call upon all the possible laws & bylaws in there arsenel come a heated debate thats not going their way.
This will be spewed before the marina staff in a way that no one could mount any defence.
I thought a berthholders meeting would be the last place to bring it up, unless the marina has voiced a concern over non compliance with regulations.
The "Berthholders" which in my mind would include the sportsboat owners" should be consulted beforehand.
I am under the impression it had gone beyond that & now involves the local firebrigade etc, point taken though, read too many replies to remember half of whats been said & who said what.

Do feel as probably the OP does, it's probably more of a debate than was expected, not bad for there 4th post! though. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
most of that info is available in the RYA guidelines link I posted on the first page /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
I couldn't agree more. What a ludicrous idea, finding out the facts before wading in. There's no place for people like that on this forum. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

As for raising concerns about berthholders behaviour and marina safety in a berthholder's meeting, the man or woman (apologies, not sure which) is clearly mad. There's no call to be discussing concerns about your berth, berthholders or the marina in a berthholder's meeting. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Then asking the fire brigade and the RNLI about fires and boats. What do they know? They probably get paid on the amount of times they stop people having fun away. They're not really concerned about stopping people getting serious burns at all. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif


p.s. I thought your reply was a little harsh and made some fairly extreme assumptions so I hope you won't be to upset by some sarcasm - the poor old OP only made two posts. As far as I can make out they have perceived a serious risk to themselves and others they care about and are trying to work out how to address it. There may or may not be a closed mind involved but in fairness the RNLI and the fire brigade have simply reinforced their concerns.
 
Chrusty.................... What an opportunity to have a go at the moboer's, and to call them idiots as well, you must be on top of the world!

What exactly do you know of this situation, a few words by a disgruntled berth holder in a marina, and you ignite quicker than a cigarette in a can of petrol.
It may be something completely innocent, but you would like to go in boots and all first, why?

Would you not like to know the other side of the story first, or could that take some of the wind out of your sails!

For all you know it could have been a group of RNLI instructors filling up their RIBs for a training day.

If this person couldn't even go to the marina office for a quiet chat, well read into that what you like, sounds as though you do anyway.

By the way, Chrusty, if the worst happens, I am always first there, putting out fires between berth holders, because thats where most of them start in a marina.
 
The OP needs to be careful about what he wishes for. Many yachts use petrol outboards and I imagine that with no fuel in the marina, they also top up their tanks using cans.

Now the quantities may be much smaller but even 5 litres handled badly can prove disastrous. If, as the OP seems to wish, refuelling with cans is banned in the marina, it will also affect the Yotties and may even affect the OP!!
 
"Its all going to be ok, the caped crusaders will take care of everything.
They can front up with a folder full of council by-laws and a puffed up fire officer, because these poor pertrol powered souls no not what they do. If only they could see the light...... Amen."

I was going to take the time to answer you point by point, but I think that anybody, mobo or raggie, will pretty much have the measure of you from your above post.......don't you? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Oh dear this has degenerated into some sort of yottie vs stinkie food fight, i can understand why.

However if anybody had bothered to read the original post there is obviously more to the this than we have been told, 15 "speedboats" being refueled together with 200litres in "plastic" containers 2-3 times a week! This is not just the odd small ski boat or rib owner owner refueling, its a full on commmercial business, perhaps a fleet of school boats or hire boats. In which case they really should have better arrangements and be taking precautions or at least look like they are making an effort. Should have extinguishers handy, use proper steel jerry cans and have some sort of closed pump and piping arrangement to just make the job easier and safer.

As someone who has reguarly carted a 100litres of fuel down to my previous petrol powered boat, I know it can be done safely and without making a fuss, but the OP is entitled to have concerns.
 
"Oh dear this has degenerated into some sort of yottie vs stinkie food fight, i can understand why."

Not by me it isn't .........I think everyone should be concerned about it. Also I have no intention whatsoever of being drawn into a yaboo contest with anybody. I stand by what I have said previously, but there will always be an element who want to do what they like, when they like, how fast they like, to whom they like, etc. etc. and to whom the idea of being regulated is a total anathema.

All I can say is, it doesn't matter whether we are a raggie or a stinkie, we can all burn just as well as each other.
 
[ QUOTE ]
All I can say is, it doesn't matter whether we are a raggie or a stinkie, we can all burn just as well as each other.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think that sort of hyperbole will advance your argument?

The H&S brigade (on this thread and generally) would earn some respect if they cut out the emotive language and confined themselves to stating how petrol can be handled safely.

Instead we get virtual hysteria and the implied suggestion that I need to have my digital watch tested and certified before I refuel my car/boat/lawnmower. FFS.
 
To take some of your points Grumpy,

The berthholders meeting should be used for discussion I agree but at what point do you think it should represent all of the berthholders & not just the opinion of a few?

Perhaps before raising it at the meeting the bertholders chairman should be consulted or the marina & the facts gathered beforehand neither of which has reportedley been done(I assume).

It apears IMO that the situation could be resolved by simply going over to the parties concerned & asking them to stop, the OP has no wish to do this & is more concerned with building a case to put before the berthholders & marina representatives at the next meeting.
In fact a cowardly way to resolve an issue by trying to hide behind both the berthholders & legislation.

For all they know the issue might have been raised in the past & where they are refueling could be designated a fueling berth!

My point about portable fuel tanks is that no decanting takes place so is it dangerous? & would anyone not familliar with speedboats understand that they are portable tanks & are perfectly acceptable?

Looking at the quantities & amount of boats plus the time of refueling sudgested by the OP;

200ltrs (or 10 portable tanks) between 15 boats,is that excessive?
15 boats all refueling at a time?, 2-3 times a week & it takes 2-3 hours a time?.

If I can make an assumption it's either a powerboat club or would it be the OP has made a slight exageration to further their concerns.

To my mind the OP should approach the people that can sort it out first instead of hidding behind legislation, why not just walk over & tell them of their concerns?

As to approching different organisations for advice, IMO if the OP has done this to further their personal understanding, no problem, but to my mind the intention is to build an opposition to be called upon in the unlikely event the marina find the practice acceptable.


I wasn't trying to be harsh but all these goody goody types who spout H&S & PC need to get a life sometimes, I know it's not an excuse to be complacent about the risks but it took an explosion in a car to highlight it to the OP, what will be the next thing they decide to challenge as unsafe?, refueling your car?
 
Chrusty, you aren't going to pull to old "everybody's on my side, so there!" routine, are you? I thought you would have a bit more go in you mate! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Why are you choosing to ignore the fact there could be another side to the story?

Shouldn't the accused have a right to a fair trial?

Is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

Does the fact that everybody has got my measure now (according to Chrusty) mean that I can no longer run to the assistance of the down-trodden, as what I say, will no longer be accepted as credible.

Or has my credibility been dismissed because I dared to make fun of Captain Chrusty to the rescue.

You don't need to reply, point by point, as my credibility is so low now, it hardly seems worth while going on! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
By the way folks, in case you didn't get it........ I do take fire safety seriously, its very real and ever present danger. Vessel fires do rate as the most serious.

What I don't agree with is hesterical knee jerk reaction on here say. It can be more dangerous than the actual fire. Look into all the facts before making judgements.

Its a short season, learn to co-exist in the marina /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
By the way folks, in case you didn't get it........ I do take fire safety seriously, its very real and ever present danger. Vessel fires do rate as the most serious.

What I don't agree with is hesterical knee jerk reaction on here say. It can be more dangerous than the actual fire. Look into all the facts before making judgements.

Its a short season, learn to co-exist in the marina /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Callum,

Well I guess I should have taken the trouble to have a look at your profile, then I would have understood a bit more about where you were coming from.

Yes, fair enough, there are always two sides to every story, however, I think we can only respond to what somebody posts on here, the OP obviously has serious concerns about the situation in their marina, and there may well be things that they, or we don't know?

If the situation IS as they describe, then something needs to be done to rectify what could have very nasty consequences.

I am sure as a Marina Manager, that you do take the possibility of fire very seriously. Maybe I am a little more sensitive about the subject than I should be?

I don't have a problem with the OP trying to get as much information as possible before tackling the Marina, and a visit from the local FPO (puffed up or not) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif might well be to everybodies advantage including the Marina.

Apologies for the "got your measure" comment, I obviously hadn't........I must be getting old and crotchity.

Captain Chrusty. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
G'day Chrusty

Thanks for that mate, obviously there where areas that made both of us fire up (sorry). I think it was a case of who shouts loudest wins, it's no way to behave on the forum, so apologies from me /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Cheers

Callum
 
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