large amounts of petrol in cans coming onto our marina - HELP

Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

Do we really need any more namby pamby H&S stuff.. I'm all for dealling with the problem, but not by creating a big fuss, that could have long reaching consequences for the rest of us.

Most marinas have already lost there hose pipes and there are quite enough restrictions all ready.

A friendly talk to the manager should sort it out. Else you might find armed guards searching you as you enter the marina, looking for knives or a spare gallon of petrol.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

A few years ago, a visitor to a Southampton Marina filled a small petrol powered cuddy cabin type boat from a jerry can. It is alleged he was smoking at the time, and of course you can guess the rest..........

The three people on board were all burned, and had to jump in the marina. The guys wife was trapped in the cabin for a while, unable to undo the escape hatch. The ensuing fire completely consumed the boat, and a Sunseeker Superhawk moored next to it.

Unbelievably, the very next day, several ribs in the marina were being filled from jerry cans...........!!
 
Having had some firefighting training as a motor race marshall where we set fire to fuel in control conditions I can say that if you had seen how little petrol is required to create a big fire then you WOULD be worried.

Just the fact that they are doing it may not be illegal depending on the type of containers (not Jerry cans, must be purpose made outboard fuel tanks of not more than 30lts and coloured red and marked with the appropriate words) and providing it is not stored ... the fuel must be put into a permanent fuel tank immediate. The 30ltr containers cannot be used for storage. In fact you can store 2 of them on board but that it is. Jerry cans are out if over 10ltrs in size.

I thoroughly investigated all this when I took my boat round Britain last year... I may have some of the details slightly wrong but this is how I remember it.

However, my concerns would increase if they didn't have fire extinguishers ready and available and if they spilled any especially into the water... even a little makes a big slick and if a cigarette is discarded into the water could be naughty.

I would observe them and see if they are being careful and if they have extinguishers handy. If I were still concerned I would have a word with the marina manager first and if nothing was done to answer my concerns then I might consider talking to the fire brigade.

If it was done carefully and with sensible precautions then I wouldn't be concerned.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

I guess the point here is that it needs some control.

Having empty cans laying about is simply not good enough.

Someone needs to grab the bull by the horns and sort it out.

You dont want to stop it, but just control it.

If the people doing it take no notice and the Marina turn a blind eye, then you MUST call the fire brigade.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

[ QUOTE ]
I guess the point here is that it needs some control.

Having empty cans laying about is simply not good enough.

Someone needs to grab the bull by the horns and sort it out.

You dont want to stop it, but just control it.

If the people doing it take no notice and the Marina turn a blind eye, then you MUST call the fire brigade.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am afraid that stopping it happening is the only logical thing to do.

If the petrol was to ignite, it wont just be a nice little fire, that a few squirts with a fire extinuisher will sort out. It will explode with devastating force, killing or seriously injuring anybody caught by it.

The ensuing fire may well be something that trained fire fighters can deal with, and as for having fire extinguishers at hand, it is a laughable idea. Do the people involved know what type of extinguishers are suitable? Are they trained in their use? Are they of sufficient capacity and quantity to have any meaningful fire fighting capability?

I have an intense dislike of H&E busybodying, but there are times, and I believe this situation to be one of them, if indeed things are as the OP suggests, that H&E, and or the Fire Service should be consulted. By all means talk to the Marina Management first, but if you feel that they will either ignore you, or even take sanctions against you, then don't talk to them.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

The biggest threat is not people refuelling their boats from plastic petrol cans, but the health and safety types banning anything that they consider "dangerous". I wonder exactly how many marinas have gone up in smoke because of people refuelling like this? How many years have people been doing this without a problem and why all of a sudden is it so "dangerous" that it has to be banned?
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest threat is not people refuelling their boats from plastic petrol cans, but the health and safety types banning anything that they consider "dangerous". I wonder exactly how many marinas have gone up in smoke because of people refuelling like this? How many years have people been doing this without a problem and why all of a sudden is it so "dangerous" that it has to be banned?

[/ QUOTE ]


So according to you then...........there is no point in doing anything until after somebody has been killed or injured???

I would like to know on what basis you make your statement .......

"How many years have people been doing this without a problem and why all of a sudden is it so "dangerous" that it has to be banned?"

I would say that if it is a dangerous practice now, it has always been a dangerous practice, even if what you say is true, (for which I have no verification), it does not mean that it can't happen, and in my view, we should do everything in our power to make sure it doesn't.

Arguments like, "we have always done it like that".......are going to cut no ice, after somebody gets killed or injured, and to claim that it's done like that in order to save a few sheckles at the pumps , would also cut no ice.

Just when you think it's never going to happen to you...........

It usually does.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest threat is not people refuelling their boats from plastic petrol cans, but the health and safety types banning anything that they consider "dangerous"

[/ QUOTE ] Just listen to yourself complaining about health and safety, it does make you sound rather cool, a bit Jeremy Clarkson in fact.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

My slant on this is its not about H&S it should be about common sense,if people want to refuel there boats with cans fine but do it outside of the marina preferably away from anybody else,our marina doesnt allow refueling on the pontoons but you can go onto the river pontoons and refuel there,reducing the risk to others.

ash
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

How about positive action, rather than negative reaction?

Ask your marina to organise a fire safety day, or organise it yourself.... i'm sure the local fire brigade would be willing to help...

Encourage safe actions rather than whinge about unsafe ones....

A little education can go a long way....
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

Seems fairly reasonable to me. I probably should say, that I am responding to the original post. That is an awful lot of fuel to be handling, for way too much time, on a marina pontoon. The consequences of it going bang don't bear thinking about, (shudder)!

As I said in one of my previous posts, I have an intense diskile of H&SE busybodying, but I do have a healthy respect for extremely flamable materials, and a healthy regard for the health and safety of myself and my fellow human beings.

The Fire Prevention Officer, at the OP's location would be the way to go really. Most of the ones of my aquaintance have been reasonable and diplomatic chaps, that know their business well, but he may deem it necessary to inform the H&SE of the situation, if he feels that his advice may be ignored. I have been a very long time out of the service, so am not up to speed on these matters, so I will say no more.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

That is a very good idea! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

The previously mentioned Fire Prevention Officer would be only too pleased to assist with that.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

But where is the evidence that what they are doing is so dangerous? How many marinas have gone up in flames as a result of people refuelling their petrol boats from cans? Are you trying to ban a dangerous practise or are you trying to ban something you just don't like?
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

Ho-Hum! I wasn't going to say anything else on this, but I suppose I have to respond to that. This quote from the OP's original post....

" on our marina large amounts of petrol are brought down to refuel the speed boats (15 or so of them) 2-3 times a week approx 100/200 litres at a time in plastic containers."

Now then, do you honestly think that situation is safe practice???

Would you want to be within two hundred yards of that if it went bang?

Would you want your children / wife / partner, to be within two hundred yards of that if it went bang?

Would you want anybody at all to be within two hundred yards of that amount of fuel if it went bang??

Would you want your boat or anybody elses within two hundred yards of that amount of fuel if it went bang?

I am not trying to ban something I don't like, I am trying to suggest that maybe what the people are doing is modified so that it becomes safe practice, as I said to you before, shutting the door after the event, is to late.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

Agree with you. The answer is that zero marinas have been burnt down as a result of this practice. In fact there have been amazingly few incidents over the years with petrol powered boats generally. The fact that the marina management doesn't seem bothered tends to suggest that what is going on doesn't seem to them to be particularly hazardous and, after all, they have a vested interest in their marina not burning down. I think you're right in that the OP just doesn't like these boats and maybe their owners are a bit rowdy and boisterous which doesn't go down too well with other bertholders
Having said that a demo day by a local fire prevention officer wouldn't be a bad idea
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

Not getting at the OP here but we all use gerry cans when re-fueling outboards. Some of us use cans during work ie: gennys, con saws, chain saws, lawn moweres etc etc.

Surely it's how the cans are used that's important ?
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

[ QUOTE ]
.... but we all use gerry cans when re-fueling outboards. Some of us use cans during work ie: gennys, con saws, chain saws, lawn moweres etc etc.

Surely it's how the cans are used that's important ?

[/ QUOTE ]


glade someone said that.... as an owner of a multitude of 5ltr & 10ltr fuel cans, having one stored in the cockpit locker on the boat, have two in my garden shed for my mower (doesn't everyone..?), I was starting to think I would only be allowed to fill up my auxiliary outboard whilst some 8 miles south of the Nab Tower whilst alone not smoking, then once returning to the marina smuggling the empty can back to the car under my coat! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif


in all seriousness I am a partner in a business that retails over 11m litres of fuel a year. The things that you see happening on a fuel forecourt would sometimes make you run for your life. The things that seem to be happening in Itchen are obviously concerning some people as well. I think self preservation controls how most people act around fuel, but you only need one bloody idiot and it all ends in tears.
 
Re: Brave, cowardly or just stupid?

..and that's the point I think. I can see why people do it, but it could be very hazzardous. And frankly..I've seen petrol spewing into the Hamble/Itchen whilst people try and stuff it in the tank.
 
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