Language proficiency

[westernman]

At the ceremony before you walked into the room there was a box which you had to put your CdS in, ID card in the pack and passport €85 at the local Marie took less than 2 weeks.
For the interview I was given a tip to which was to try control it and move it in a direction I wanted but it was all straight forward stuff History, bit of politics and French geography then talking about current news.

I did not have the ceremony. And I was not asked anything about history, or geography. The woman from the prefecture who was supposed to ask that stuff only got as far as asking who the president of France was, and she did not get a word in after that.

 

[Clancy Moped]

I like that approach a lot - there’s quite a lot out there with Paul Noble’s name on it - do you know which product this came in?

No I'm sorry I don't, just wanted show an example.

 

[Poignard]

I was talking about French citizenship to a Frenchman where my boat is kept.

He said "Your French is terrible but it will probably do, and if you know who Joan of Arc was, you're in."

 

[Fr J Hackett]

One of the biggest if not the biggest problems is thinking in your native language and trying to translate into French. The sentence structure is different as are the expressions plus by the time you have done it the conversation has moved on to something different. The breakthrough is when you think in French.

 

[stranded]

No I'm sorry I don't, just wanted show an example.

Not to worry - I’ve signed up to a trial of Audible and got a free subscription to his beginners course - suspect it will be in there somewhere. But in any case it follows the same straightforward pragmatic approach - thanks for bringing it to my attention, going to give it a good go.

 

[Clancy Moped]

One of the biggest if not the biggest problems is thinking in your native language and trying to translate into French. The sentence structure is different as are the expressions plus by the time you have done it the conversation has moved on to something different. The breakthrough is when you think in French.

I just about started dreaming in French, then we left

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I just about started dreaming in French, then we left

I dreamt a lot about French things a long time ago

 

[stranded]

One of the biggest if not the biggest problems is thinking in your native language and trying to translate into French. The sentence structure is different as are the expressions plus by the time you have done it the conversation has moved on to something different. The breakthrough is when you think in French.

Yes, that was a big part of my problem in the Alliance Français course. I was off to a shaky start because the beginner group was undersubscribed so didn’t run and they persuaded me that with my quite good vocabulary I would manage, in the A2 group. I didn’t - as the whole 1 1/2 hour lesson was in French I was continually struggling to keep up and towards the end my brain would feel as though it was literally full up. In the final exercise I was asked about my daughter - what she does, where she lives, what’s her name - I could do the French bits but couldn’t immediately recall where she lives nor her name (next door, I see her every day). I’ve never experienced anything like that before - a bit scary actually.

 

[stranded]

I dreamt a lot about French things a long time ago

As a teenager I dreamt I copped with Giscard d’Estaing’s daughter - that was random.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I started learning German at 33 with no history of learning the language at school - it took me about 5 years living and working in Germany to get fluent enough to no longer need English - I was fluent in French before learning German and learning German has messed up my French. It's still there, comprehension is fine, but when speaking I end up mixing vocab between German and French, or start using German word order in French. It returns after about 2 weeks in France.

As @Bouba has said, B1 is not that taxing, and his advice to aim for a pass rather than 100% is very sound. I know plenty of Brits who now have German citizenship - their German is awful, but they all knife and forked their way through B1 for their citizenship test.

IMO, to learn a languge then do what you did as a toddler .. first single word vocab, nouns and verbs .... constant exposure and repetition is essential ... to learn German we deliberately restricted ourselves to German TV and Radio, try childrens audio books too. I found that I got to the point where I had a feel for what sounded right rather than learning tenses and grammar. Trying to think in English and translate before speaking only gets you so far .... once you start dreaming in the foreign language then you are well on the way to becoming properly fluent where you can start playing with words and interpretations to make spontaneous jokes and retorts - but it takes years ... I've now been in Germany for 23 years and finally feel totally comfortable with the language - but my written German isn't what it could be.

We are about to start learning Italian in preperation for retirement. I wouldn't say I am gifted at languages by any means, but I am not afraid of having a go and taking on the challenge. I find living in a foreign country without learning enough of the language to function without english is simply an insult to the country that is hosting you.

Basically it is hard work, and it gets harder with age, but certainly not impossible.

Total immersion and lots of repetition is the answer IMO.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Yes, that was a big part of my problem in the Alliance Français course. I was off to a shaky start because the beginner group was undersubscribed so didn’t run and they persuaded me that with my quite good vocabulary I would manage, in the A2 group. I didn’t - as the whole 1 1/2 hour lesson was in French I was continually struggling to keep up and towards the end my brain would feel as though it was literally full up. In the final exercise I was asked about my daughter - what she does, where she lives, what’s her name - I could do the French bits but couldn’t immediately recall where she lives nor her name (next door, I see her every day). I’ve never experienced anything like that before - a bit scary actually.

I would imagine if someone asked you that question in English it would elicit quite an involved reply whereas for a basic French question it just need to be answered in very simple terms no more than simple sentences with one regular verb in the present tense. Try it. Elle habite à côté de moi, Elle s'appelle ... etc

 

[stranded]

I would imagine if someone asked you that question in English it would elicit quite an involved reply whereas for a basic French question it just need to be answered in very simple terms no more than simple sentences with one regular verb in the present tense. Try it. Elle habite à coterie de moi, Elle s'appelle ... etc

That’s sort of what I said - the scary thing was that I could not recall the facts - where does she live, what is her name - like my English brain had closed down!

 

[Bouba]

That’s sort of what I said - the scary thing was that I could not recall the facts - where does she live, what is her name - like my English brain had closed down!

While my French is almost non existent...a funny thing happens to me when I visit England...yes, I speak French to the natives
I will be honest, the wife’s fluency is what allows me to live comfortably in our non-English French community. I also get professional help...each week I see a hypnotherapist...she teaches me French, also motivates me to study, sit exams, lose weight etc. I find that so much better than a language school...of which I have had bad experiences.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

While my French is almost non existent...a funny thing happens to me when I visit England...yes, I speak French to the natives
I will be honest, the wife’s fluency is what allows me to live comfortably in our non-English French community. I also get professional help...each week I see a hypnotherapist...she teaches me French, also motivates me to study, sit exams, lose weight etc. I find that so much better than a language school...of which I have had bad experiences.

Years ago I was outside Parc des Princes for a France England 5 nations match, that's how long ago it was. There were 3 of us a mate and my now wife then girl friend and we didn't have tickets so we agreed that we would split up, wife and me and my mate to try and get tickets in the same block. After half an hour or so I had a fist full of tickets and a load of Francs and my mate similar but nothing together so we agreed to meet up after the match. Shortly afterwards a French tout who I had spoken to earlier was having a bit of a language problem with English guys, he asked me if I could help on the promise of some good tickets free just before the start, so I did. The funny thing was I was talking to him in French and the English guys in English when one group who we sold to was walking away saying F'ing French bastards. A few minutes before the start he handed me two premium tickets which turned out to be on the half way line mid way up directly opposite the tunnel. As we made our way to the gate I just chucked a handful of tickets towards several groups of people without tickets. A very profitable and enjoyable afternoon.

 

[Irish Rover]

I started learning German at 33 with no history of learning the language at school - it took me about 5 years living and working in Germany to get fluent enough to no longer need English - I was fluent in French before learning German and learning German has messed up my French. It's still there, comprehension is fine, but when speaking I end up mixing vocab between German and French, or start using German word order in French. It returns after about 2 weeks in France.

I have exactly the same problem speaking Irish. I went to an Irish speaking school and learned all subjects, except English, through Irish. I don't often have occasion to speak Irish now but when I do I get totally confused and many of the words coming out are Turkish. My comprehension is still fine and I even watch rugby and follow the commentary in Irish.

 

[capnsensible]

As most know I have a French wife and French nationality when I made my application after 4 years living in France which was obligatory, if you were over 65 then officially you didn't need the B1 but there was no way of convincing those vetting the application that it was the case. Nowadays it's mandatory regardless of age. It took over 2 years to compile my case file with all the required translations, several interviews, a policeman coming to our apartment in Grenoble for a nose around then an 30 minute interview at the prefecture and finally after 6 months of submitting the final file I was informed that I was accepted and given the date to be presented with my papers, it was the last one before covid struck so I was lucky.
In the village that I live in there was a guy married to a local but commuting and working in London, he pissed the people off who were collecting his paperwork and the fact that he was working in London seemed a big issue, that was 8 years ago, he still hasn't got his nationality and is resigned to staying on a

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Is the above post meant to mean something or has the captain succumbed to the demon drink again.

 

[capnsensible]

Is the above post meant to mean something or has the captain succumbed to the demon drink again.

I made a gag at your expense. It was rubbish so I deleted it. Now what is this nonsense about drink?

 

[ylop]

Goddamn all this positivity! Alright, alright, I’m going to put my back into again, forget the b1 for now and work on developing the language of love to get me a horizontal dictionary for the summer. Sadly, with a very attentive swmbo, the latter project will have to remain entirely in my own head, which should save me considerable embarrassment.

You could add some spice and both improve your french with a little role play!

Seriously, immersion is the solution. I studied alongside a a bunch of people doing mixed science and language courses who would all go off to France / Germany / Spain for a year and study science in their chosen language (and a bunch of overseas students would come to rainy Scotland to learn science in our version of English!). One of my colleagues who was not on the science with language course, and had not done any language since school landed themselves an industrial placement in some industrial wasteland in Germany where English was not commonly used. She had to muddle through and get on with it, and did very well. The language students had mixed success - if they ended up in a settling where there were multiple "brits" they tended to hang around together, have less need to speak the language and other people interacting with them spoke to them in English (often because they wanted to improve their English). If they were "on their own" they both seemed to develop the language better and treat the year as less of a holiday and embrace the culture. I'd say it was the same with students coming to Scotland too: if a French student befriended the French students, and the students who had come back from France the year before their English was not as good when they left as when they French students arrived and built friendships around other things (e.g. the mountaineering club would always have a number of foreigners who arrived with minimal English but left quite conversant).

I've seen Duolingo etc in action and its quite impressive, but you can switch it off and revert to English at any time when a problem is too hard. Go to France. Avoid speaking English.

 

[Bouba]

I also need to explain something about the DELF….they have a theme….the DELF B2 tests your ability to debate, to defend your point of view.
B1 is all about interaction with officials (which is why it’s the go to level for the government officials)…these can be a police officer, headmaster, mayor, landlord etc….for example if your landlord said that you can’t have a guest stay overnight…you have to be able to ask why and give your reasons why your guest won’t be a nuisance etc