Kiel to Poole

[norti_raskal]

I'm thinking of buying a boat in Germany located in Kiel and was wondering if anyone has done the trip from there to the UK at this time of year?
Would anyone have any tips for me please.
The boat in question is a 41ft Fisksatra s30 Skerry Cruiser.
I have just sold my boat and need to get the new one back to the UK ASAP, am i expecting too much and making silly plans this time of year/
All tips, criticisms, advice etc much appreciated.

 

[LadyInBed]

Tip 1 - Sail the boat locally for a few days to get to know it and find out what needs fixing before setting off on a longish winter trip.

 

[Fossil]

The trip will divide into 4 parts as I see it.

1. The North Sea Canal: very straightforward as long as you take the trouble to read up on the light signals, rules and regulations etc. The light signals at locks are meaningful and enforced and there can be fines if you get it wrong.

2. The exit from the Elbe via Cuxhaven and the channel to the outer marker: tidal streams can run at up to 5 knots, so be sure of your routing and weather forecasts before you set off, 'cos once you are committed, there's no turning back. Going out on a falling tide, sailing or motoring, you will clock up some pretty impressive speeds over the ground, but it can kick up in the estuary if the wind is against this strong tidal flow. Stay outside the main channel, the big ships cannot manouvre, and won't try, so stay out of the way.

3. The trip along the German and Dutch coast to the corner at Texel. This has been discussed on another thread, but provided you get the weather window, it is uncomplicated navigation. Across the Jade estuary, a really good look-out for other traffic will be necessay and vigilance is needed at all times. Ports of refuge can be tricky, as there aren't many of them, the sand-bars shift around and their orientation means that you can have to sail miles past the entrances to get the channel. Get the very latest charts and updates, as things change very rapidly in this area. Note: it is possible to sail inside the islands if things are very rough, but this will be much slower and you will need to work the tides very carefully. Not recommended.

4. From Texel/Den Helder, it is basically down-channel, then a Channel crossing to Poole.

Personally, although it is a few years since I did this trip, I wouldn't consider doing it in winter. If you like the boat, buy it by all means, but do like the sensible Germans do and lay it up locally until the weather gets warm enough for comfortable sailing.

 

[norti_raskal]

thanks for the info, I need to get the boat back to the Uk as I will be living on it so the sooner it gets back to Blighty the better for me, but I will take all info seriously etc.
Thanks

 

[AliM]

Consider the canals - there is one from the Elbe to the Ems, then from Delfziel through the Standemaste route to Vlissingen, then a quick dart across the channel, and hop along the coast home. There is a single pilot book for the Standemaste route that you can buy in the Nethrlands. I don't know about the Elbe-Ems canal, because you cannot do it with your mast up so we have never considered it - probably ok for you though - google is your friend to find out the restrictions for that bit! I also do not know if all the Dutch canals are open in winter.

The first bit through the Kiel canal is very straightforward. Radio the lock when you arrive and they will tell you when to enter and which lock. You pay at the Holteneu end. In the canal, you stop in one of the wide bays if three red lights show. Otherwise keep going, except you have to stop overnight.

 

[jerrytug]

Get through the Kiel canal to Cuxhaven, and sit there waiting for light winds, hopefully a massive high with light NE winds will arrive at some point. The clear weather will make it very easy to see the shipping routes at night, in fact you will be able to navigate by them. Make sure you have reliable heating on board. Then check it again.
Don't bother trying to smash down the N Sea against southwesterlies, not worth it, and the standing mast route is debatable!
Have a great trip Jerry
edited to add, after a quick goggle...that's a brave choice for a liveaboard, 41' long by 8' wide. What sort of heating does she have?

 

[han34]

I did this in April and May this year. I did the standing mast route through the Netherlands, although it takes longer it is very sheltered. It depends on your draft, I need two metres which is more than the charted depth in the northern section but the depth varies and you can check before you enter the canal system. If you do go this way, the longest leg of the entire trip is Cuxhaven to Nordaney, about sixty miles. I did the entire trip day sailing, I left Breege (Rugen) at the end of April and got to Portsmouth at the beginning of June. I don't see any reason not to this in winter just day sailing back.

 

[johnalison]

I've not done it in winter but many times in the summer, when we have almost always encountered headwinds. I would only add that the Dutch tend to lower the water level in the Frisian canals in winter and this could make them impassable with much more than 1.5m draft.

 

[Joker]

I did the journey in September. Major problem is that you're going against the prevailing wind, and at this time of year, you won't get much daylight.

 

[alant]

I'm thinking of buying a boat in Germany located in Kiel and was wondering if anyone has done the trip from there to the UK at this time of year?
Would anyone have any tips for me please.
The boat in question is a 41ft Fisksatra s30 Skerry Cruiser.
I have just sold my boat and need to get the new one back to the UK ASAP, am i expecting too much and making silly plans this time of year/
All tips, criticisms, advice etc much appreciated.

Is this similar?

http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/details/298/Fisksatra-Varv-S-30/yacht-for-sale/

 

[dom]

thanks for the info, I need to get the boat back to the Uk as I will be living on it so the sooner it gets back to Blighty the better for me, but I will take all info seriously etc.
Thanks

The trip is fairly straightforward if you are comfortable with the boat and your ability to make long night passages - that is, once you get the right weather slot.

1. Nice weather at this time of year often means cold and your foul gear will need to be up to it - each crew member should bring the full monty in terms of gear. Also, does the boat have reliable heating?

2. Depending on your route you will be amazed at the traffic density out there. If possible take sufficient crew to enable two persons watches (i.e. one on deck/other messing around with nav gear); unless vessel has really comprehensive gear at the wheel, or reliable autopilot.

3. Check the radar reflector and install a decent one if necessary. See here:

http://www.safety-marine.co.uk/spages/how-to-choose-a-radar-reflector.htm

Good luck!

 

[Resolution]

I took my 42 footer from Hamble to Kiel (and beyond) this June. The North Sea crossing was horrible with fog and heavy shipping traffic. We have excellent chartplotters, radar and AIS, but for once I really wished we had an active radar reflector.
We were also arrested for passing too close to an oil pipe installation, and fined Euros 500. Do read up all the rules carefully and ensure that all the crew know them!

This leg was so awful that I paid a delivery outfit (Halcyon of this parish) to bring the yacht back from Kiel in Aug/Sept.
Waved them goodbye at Kiel on a Sunday morning and met them Wednesday morning as they tied up in the Hamble. 500 odd miles at an average of 7 knots! Apparently they had a splendid ride, North or NW winds all the way, no fog, no worries.

 

[jerrytug]

I took my 42 footer from Hamble to Kiel (and beyond) this June. The North Sea crossing was horrible with fog and heavy shipping traffic. We have excellent chartplotters, radar and AIS, but for once I really wished we had an active radar reflector.
We were also arrested for passing too close to an oil pipe installation, and fined Euros 500. Do read up all the rules carefully and ensure that all the crew know them!

This leg was so awful that I paid a delivery outfit (Halcyon of this parish) to bring the yacht back from Kiel in Aug/Sept.
Waved them goodbye at Kiel on a Sunday morning and met them Wednesday morning as they tied up in the Hamble. 500 odd miles at an average of 7 knots! Apparently they had a splendid ride, North or NW winds all the way, no fog, no worries.

Sounds horrible, who arrested you, and how? Not at sea surely? I think lots of people would be very interested to hear how it worked, cheers Jerry

 

[ctelfer38]

I'm thinking of buying a boat in Germany located in Kiel and was wondering if anyone has done the trip from there to the UK at this time of year?
Would anyone have any tips for me please.
The boat in question is a 41ft Fisksatra s30 Skerry Cruiser.
I have just sold my boat and need to get the new one back to the UK ASAP, am i expecting too much and making silly plans this time of year/
All tips, criticisms, advice etc much appreciated.

You really need to approach the prospect of this trip at this time of year with no overriding remit to get back to UK on set dates. There is a high chance that the weather will be against you. If heavy from the North there are few safe havens along the German/Dutch Coasts. If from the SW you have a long hard and cold passage ahead of you. If I am under rating your experience and resilience, my apologies; but the nature of your query and the invite for someone to join you suggests to me that you should change your landside plans and bring your yacht back to UK either in very slow time in good weather window stages over the winter or await the better weather season next year. I will be interested to advice from others who know this sea area. I have made passages to and from the Baltic many times and it can be a trial even in the 'sailing' season. Best of luck whatever you decide. CBT

 

[Mike_Alpha]

You really need to approach the prospect of this trip at this time of year with no overriding remit to get back to UK on set dates. There is a high chance that the weather will be against you. If heavy from the North there are few safe havens along the German/Dutch Coasts. If from the SW you have a long hard and cold passage ahead of you. If I am under rating your experience and resilience, my apologies; but the nature of your query and the invite for someone to join you suggests to me that you should change your landside plans and bring your yacht back to UK either in very slow time in good weather window stages over the winter or await the better weather season next year. I will be interested to advice from others who know this sea area. I have made passages to and from the Baltic many times and it can be a trial even in the 'sailing' season. Best of luck whatever you decide. CBT

I agree whith this. Furthermore you should know that of all the German island habours only Helgoland is open in winter, so you would have to go Cuxhaven - Helgoland - Den Helder or Ijmuiden, i.e. a very long, cold and dangerous trip. M.A.

 

[jerrytug]

I agree whith this. Furthermore you should know that of all the German island habours only Helgoland is open in winter, so you would have to go Cuxhaven - Helgoland - Den Helder or Ijmuiden, i.e. a very long, cold and dangerous trip. M.A.

That's right, and opening a parallel thread on the find-a-crew section will get the same answer as you can see!

 

[Noahsdad]

No one mentioned yet that you are not allowed to transit the Kiel canal at night (ships only). This time of year there will not be enough light to do the distance in daylight so you will need to call in Rendsburg and get an early start to reach Brunsbuttel.
I prefer Texel to Dan Helder as fuel readily available as last time wandered around town looking for a fuel station with Jerries.
Watch out for the small boat channel off the entrance to Europort and give them a call on the VHF.
Good luck.

 

[dom]

This time of year there will not be enough light to do the distance in daylight so you will need to call in Rendsburg and get an early start to reach Brunsbuttel.

I'm surprised how few people like Rendsburg - there is a slightly dilapidated, but perfectly fine marina in the side-water perpendicular to the canal. At the end of the canal we filled up at a fuel pump on the starboard side (facing Brunsbuttel) - it's easy to miss, but very convenient.

I would, however, fully agree with the general sentiment that EXTREME VIGILANCE should be exercised BEFORE setting off. One would need to be very sure of the crews' ability, clothing, the boat, its equipment and weather before attempting this in mid-winter. Cold can make people lethargic and long nights are depressing; small problems can easily snowball in a tricky stretch of water.

 

[Fossil]

Not sure if it's true that few people like Rendsburg: I have never stayed there, but we did the North Sea Canal several times, and it looked fine as we went past. I certainly take the point about it being forbidden to use the waterway in the dark: we always did it in the summer, when it is possible to do the whole thing in one go, starting early and having breakfast and lunch on the move. In winter, it would be a different situation. And if you did indeed have one of these clear light north-easterly days, you'd probably be using the boat as an icebreaker and freezing your butt off doing it!

And I also agree wholeheartedly with the above sentiments about the outside voyage. Given that you most likely won't be able to use the Stand Mast Route inside and going through the Waddenzee will slow you up too much and be too risky in terms of depth for what seems to be a big fin-keeler; you are stuck with the outside run, which as various posters above have noted can be pretty horrible, even in summer. The North Sea in winter is not for amateurs.

 

[rhinorhino]

Not I hope to depress or devalue your skills, but many accident reports start "they had to get to" or involve deliveries to a tight time-table. You are expecting too much imho.