Kerosene Inverter Heaters.

Alan S

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"Inverter" seems to imply some advanced technology but it seems it's just a brand name. Basically just an old syle paraffin heater with electric ignition and electronic thermostat and timer controls needing a 230V mains supply. You would need to be aware of the risks of condensation from the water vapour produced and of course carbon monoxide. Not ideal for a boat.
 

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I don't think that's the case. (y)
You're right not surprisingly they have advanced since the old Aladdin heaters of 50 years ago as they are still common heaters over in Japan. I've got one of these, very clean hot flame, very minimal smell and moisture. Mine has a pot holder wire guard on top, plenty hot enough to cook on. Mostly lives in the attic for powercuts that don't happen but I did use it in a van and mobo for short periods with good results.

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But I think they call the boxy types inverter heaters and say they are another step above, mainly less moisture given off somehow. Maybe someone will be along soon with an equation of how thats impossible but those old heaters just filled the air with moisture, the one I have doesn't. Of course better if you can vent it but as long as there is ventilation its not a problem and the radiated heat is significant. I'd say its a good bet to go for either type. American preppers hold them in good stead as well. Can find lucky deals on ebay while other are still looking for Aladdins.
 

Paulg25

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Found this...

The Japanese non-vented "fan" heater burns kerosene gas and is known as a gasification type heater. The liquid kerosene fuel is pre-heated via an electric heating element to vaporize the fuel. The resulting gas is collected and forced into the burn chamber where it is ignited and burns with a blue flame, similar to propane.

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Found this...

The Japanese non-vented "fan" heater burns kerosene gas and is known as a gasification type heater. The liquid kerosene fuel is pre-heated via an electric heating element to vaporize the fuel. The resulting gas is collected and forced into the burn chamber where it is ignited and burns with a blue flame, similar to propane.

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My round one that doesn't look anything fancy also burns with a blue flame if its set right. Presumably the heat is recirculated to have a similar heating of the fuel before it ignites. I'm not sure like I say if there is an equation of how much water is given off per amount of paraffin burned that can't be cheated but I expect the old type at least were not efficient so with these we might be seeing paraffin at its best which is a damn sight better than it used to be.
 

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Actually thinking about it mines not a fully blue flame like gas, more partly blue. The gasification ones must be better. Having the electric start and stop timer and thermostat controls also very nice features. Doesn't look useful for cooking on though!
 

Alan S

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I think I am correct in saying that Inverter is a brand name not a technology.
Every litre of paraffin burned in any heater without a flue will produce exactly the same ammount of water vapour. There is still always a CO risk, and they do require a mains supply. Not ideal for a boat.
 

William_H

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I think I am correct in saying that Inverter is a brand name not a technology.
Every litre of paraffin burned in any heater without a flue will produce exactly the same ammount of water vapour. There is still always a CO risk, and they do require a mains supply. Not ideal for a boat.
Exactly the hydrocarbon fuel you use has an amount of carbon and hydrogen. Heavier fuels like kero and diesel have more carbon lighter fuels like gas more hydrogen. The hydrogen in being burnt must give off water as vapour unless it can be collected. The carbon becomes CO2 providing there is enough oxygen supply. Any shortage of oxygen means Carbon becomes CO (carbon monoxide a deadly poison) There is no way to avoid these basic facts no matter hop much electronics. Only option is warning systems and lots of ventilation. ol'will
 

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Exactly the hydrocarbon fuel you use has an amount of carbon and hydrogen. Heavier fuels like kero and diesel have more carbon lighter fuels like gas more hydrogen. The hydrogen in being burnt must give off water as vapour unless it can be collected.
CxHy + O2 --> CO2 + H2O + heat (unbalanced...)"

You can avoid the CO, you cannot avoid the H20.
Interesting. So kero will produce less water that propane? Any idea how much less?

Question then, if kero is burned at a lower temperature can it give off more water? Any reason why old style heaters could produce more water than new style?

In which case kero burnt cleanly and very hot will be better as an unvented solution than less clean diesel and more wet propane.
 

Tranona

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Not sure why you would want a paraffin heater if you have 240v. They are popular in some countries in the world where kerosene/paraffin is a common fuel for domestic heating, usually because gas is not available. In the UK it has not been a popular fuel for many years simply because the alternatives are superior. Consequently the fuel is hard to find, unlike when I was young when the Esso Blue and Pink bowsers did the rounds 2 or 3 times a week. Disappeared when natural gas came in and portable bottled gas heaters came on the market.

Personally I would not have paraffin as a heating source on a boat unless like a Taylors or Dickinson it had an external flue. If you have 240v there are much better alternatives though.
 

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Not sure why you would want a paraffin heater if you have 240v. They are popular in some countries in the world where kerosene/paraffin is a common fuel for domestic heating, usually because gas is not available. In the UK it has not been a popular fuel for many years simply because the alternatives are superior. Consequently the fuel is hard to find, unlike when I was young when the Esso Blue and Pink bowsers did the rounds 2 or 3 times a week. Disappeared when natural gas came in and portable bottled gas heaters came on the market.

Personally I would not have paraffin as a heating source on a boat unless like a Taylors or Dickinson it had an external flue. If you have 240v there are much better alternatives though.
I'd agree its not the ideal thing for a boat unless flued. I've had old style paraffin heaters and they are just a basic wick burner same as a big oil lamp. These jap heaters are really more advanced than that so may well be better or as good as a gas heater. Not sure on energy density but if paraffin is more dense than liquefied gas it would be worth considering. Less explody too.

Even if have access to 240v its no good having heating that only works when moored in one place. An inverter would easily run one of these heaters to spin a small fan and work a timer.

My unvented heater is a worthwhile back up for domestic heating in case of winter power cuts and temporary portable use but I'd not say it was a good bet for permanent long term use on a boat.

However they are available vented eg google "toyoset vented cabin stoves" which run from 12v DC and then I wonder if it's better than a Taylors for a suitable sized boat. It might be possible to retrofit a flue to an unvented stove.

Paraffin is available cheaper than petrol stations if you buy it from heating oil suppliers like Heating Oil Boiler Servicing and Oil Tanks | Ford Fuel Oils but unless you are getting it bulk into a tank the cost of 4/5L bottles is still not that cheap even from them. But it might be possible to collect it in your own 20L containers at a decent price?
 

doug748

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"The Japanese non-vented "fan" heater burns kerosene gas and is known as a gasification type heater. The liquid kerosene fuel is pre-heated via an electric heating element to vaporize the fuel. The resulting gas is collected and forced into the burn chamber where it is ignited and burns with a blue flame, similar to propane."


Sounds like a sort of Primus stove for Dan Dare? *



* The older members will remember both Dan Dare and the Primus stove.


.
 

AntarcticPilot

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Not sure why you would want a paraffin heater if you have 240v. They are popular in some countries in the world where kerosene/paraffin is a common fuel for domestic heating, usually because gas is not available. In the UK it has not been a popular fuel for many years simply because the alternatives are superior. Consequently the fuel is hard to find, unlike when I was young when the Esso Blue and Pink bowsers did the rounds 2 or 3 times a week. Disappeared when natural gas came in and portable bottled gas heaters came on the market.

Personally I would not have paraffin as a heating source on a boat unless like a Taylors or Dickinson it had an external flue. If you have 240v there are much better alternatives though.
Entirely agree, especially as regards having a fuel-burning heater. An unflued fuel-burning heater a) inevitably increases the humidity in the cabin - the simple chemistry of burning fuel means that you unavoidably get (roughly) the same weight of water in the air as that of the fuel you burn and b) has the potential to generate Carbon Monoxide if there is any maladjustment of the burner. The difference between a well-adjusted burner and a killer is MUCH less than people imagine; you're always walking a tightrope with a blue-flame burner. I've posted before to note I've seen the results of (sadly, unpublished) tests that show that even a well-adjusted and maintained primus type burner is on the borderline for CO emissions; the tests were done in relation to the safety of using them in tents in the Antarctic.
Just for completeness, the equation for the combustion of aliphatic hydrocarbons (i.e. paraffin, diesel, petrol, butane or propane) means that for every 14 grams of fuel burnt, you get about 18 grams of water (the figures are approximate but near enough for the fuels we use); it's actually worse for lighter fuels such as propane and butane. This is absolutely unavoidable - any apparent difference in humidity is probably because of higher temperatures in the living area - but the water will still condense against cold surfaces
 

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* The older members will remember the Primus stove.
I also remember the constant need to prick the jet. Horrendous things. I wonder if thats a problem when you have a jet for gas where liquid goes through at the beginning and burns sooty or if it was dirty fuel? And if the jap heaters suffer similar. I doubt they possibly could sell something as unreliable as a primus stove.
 

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the equation for the combustion of aliphatic hydrocarbons (i.e. paraffin, diesel, petrol, butane or propane) means that for every 14 grams of fuel burnt, you get about 18 grams of water (the figures are approximate but near enough for the fuels we use); it's actually worse for lighter fuels such as propane and butane.
Thats interesting then. So better to choose a quality little paraffin heater than an unflued propane heater which are widely sold these days. The camping stove gas bottle types. If that sort of heater is wanted for portability reasons or cost.

Do you know how much difference there is between propane and paraffin? Its the higher hydrogen content is it as mentioned earlier?
 
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