JW's Upgrades for 2016 - Tender

[petem]

Ok, all understood on hinges
Yep the windscreen is a bit odd, partly because of the offset of the s/steel handrail. It used to be better when they used the old yammie throttle boxes, because the s/s rail was "outside" the Perspex rail both sides. But when novu switched to the nicer Yammie integrated/flush throttle lever they had to move the starboard leg of the s/s rail inside the windscreen, and that made for a lopsided look. On balance I think I prefer it with than without, esp in the angle in the picture below, but it's an each to their own thing and for sure it does not actually screen you from any wind!

It would be funny to get the 4 identical boats lined up side by side for a photo one day!

Apropos nothing I was using mine the other day and noticed I had 62 hours on it - for a boat hose delivery was June 2013 so almost 3 seasons use. I think I should be ashamed of myself for such little use! What hours have you got on the 40hp/Walker Bay? I know MYAG has 600 or something on his Novu!

Did you already sell the walker bay, by the way? That was a nice boat. Time to move on of course, but it did a good job in a neat package

From what I can recall it went to a good home

 

[Hurricane]

Did you already sell the walker bay, by the way? That was a nice boat. Time to move on of course, but it did a good job in a neat package

Maybe!!!
I'll wait for the comment from the potential new owner!!

BTW
I'm ashamed to say I don't know how many hours on it - I doubt if there are very many though.

The summer before last, we had the kids out with both the Walker Bay and the Jetski.
Funny, my daughter preferred to ski behind the Walker Bay than the Jetski - something to do with wake.
SWMBO holds the speed record for the Jetski at 70MPH

 

[jfm]

Yes, nicer it is for sure.
But I still think (we already debated this, IIRC) it's a pity that Yam doesn't make a version of that throttle designed for center console mount, with the trim switch reversed.
This is in fact designed for side mount, where you can control the trim very conveniently with your thumb, while you can't when it's placed either side of a console.

Yep, totally agree. It is a bit of a PITA doing the trim with your little finger! Still I can live with it because it isn't a race boat so the trim isn't used 60 times a minute. You know what, there is even a very thin silver lining: sometimes the rib is in the water with the engine down and I want to bring it onto the hilo, which requires a full tilt-up of the engine. I sometimes do that (not for any deep or even logical reason; just 'cause I feel like it!) by pressing the trim switch with the blunt end of the boat hook, or with a big toe and outstretched leg, rather than manoeuvring the tender closer to the mother ship. If Yammie had put the trim switch on the thumb side, I wouldn't be able to do that, haha!

 

[jfm]

Maybe!!!
I'll wait for the comment from the potential new owner!!

BTW
I'm ashamed to say I don't know how many hours on it - I doubt if there are very many though.

The summer before last, we had the kids out with both the Walker Bay and the Jetski.
Funny, my daughter preferred to ski behind the Walker Bay than the Jetski - something to do with wake.
SWMBO holds the speed record for the Jetski at 70MPH

What pitch is the black s/s prop you have Mike? Mine came with 16p black s/s. I changed it to 14 aluminium- much better imho for general use. For skiing I'd like even a bit less pitch - a 13P. These 4 strokes are pretty gutless till they get up to 3500rpm. In the caspar/Joe video of my boat that we posted about on here a few months ago you can see how slow Caspar is getting up on one ski, and that's with the 14P prop and 2 adults in the novurania. For a good skier wanting to do deep water starts (your daughter) I think a 12P would be nice, but they come (I think) in 11,13,14,15,16 and 11 feels a bit low so I think 13 or 14 is a good choice. The stainless ones go for £200+ on ebay - I must sell mine

Original yammie props in aluminium are about £150 iirc on ebay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-Ge...053631?hash=item20d043bcbf:g:JoEAAOSwgNRV8uW7 Also the black painted thick s/s props weigh loads so you save several kg by using an ali prop

EDIT - when you start reading use forums on prop choices things get complex. These guys seem sensible and scientific and they don't rate the yammie ali props on the F70, http://www.arimaowners.com/index.php?topic=778.0

 

[Whitelighter]

Yes he definitely has sold the Walker Bay

Gracing the back of a Ferretti soon (I hope)

 

[jfm]

Excellent. Glad to hear it has stayed in the family, so to speak. It is a very fine tender...

 

[Hurricane]

What pitch is the black s/s prop you have Mike? Mine came with 16p black s/s. I changed it to 14 aluminium- much better imho for general use. For skiing I'd like even a bit less pitch - a 13P. These 4 strokes are pretty gutless till they get up to 3500rpm. In the caspar/Joe video of my boat that we posted about on here a few months ago you can see how slow Caspar is getting up on one ski, and that's with the 14P prop and 2 adults in the novurania. For a good skier wanting to do deep water starts (your daughter) I think a 12P would be nice, but they come (I think) in 11,13,14,15,16 and 11 feels a bit low so I think 13 or 14 is a good choice. The stainless ones go for £200+ on ebay - I must sell mine

Original yammie props in aluminium are about £150 iirc on ebay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-Ge...053631?hash=item20d043bcbf:g:JoEAAOSwgNRV8uW7 Also the black painted thick s/s props weigh loads so you save several kg by using an ali prop

Yep - I changed the prop on the Walker Bay to get more power at the lower end.
We hardly ever needed the top end anyway and not even after the prop pitch change.

I thought I'd give the Novurania a try with the supplied prop - then consider a change later.
I haven't yet read your links - I will do so though.
But everything tells me that a S/S prop will be better - less likely to flex - but that could be just hearsay and I need to read the evidence.

 

[MapisM]

But everything tells me that a S/S prop will be better - less likely to flex - but that could be just hearsay and I need to read the evidence.

Forget that, M. Your savings are much better spent for nice restaurants, imho.
Or for a second alu prop, if you wish to have a choice between low load+high speed and the other way round.
I mean, yes, of course s/s is stiffer than alu, and has also other advantages (thinner and polished blades surface), but the point is WHEN do these factors begin to be relevant?
One of my old lake toys was a 22' Abbate - a former racer and speedboat builder based in Lake Como, weird chap in more ways than one, but surely someone who knew his onions re. fast boats.
When I discussed with him the prop setup of my boat, he explained me that up to 40/45 knots, he never measured any meaningful performance difference between alu and s/s, AOTBE.
And we were talking of a 22 footer whose prop blades had to withstand 300hp or so.
Now, I don't know at which speed the difference can begin to be relevant in a much lighter and less powerful 12' RIB, but it's bound to be even higher.
Surely well outside the kind of usage you will ever make of the thing.
Then again, a shiny s/s prop would definitely look great, when the RIB is placed on JW flybridge...

 

[Hurricane]

when the RIB is placed on JW flybridge...

Thats the bit that is going to be interesting.
Is it going to fit?

 

[jfm]

Thats the bit that is going to be interesting.
Is it going to fit?

I'm quietly sitting with bated breath on that point and hoping it fits, but knowing that you are pushing the boundaries a bit Mike. May the good luck force of the forum be with you!:encouragement: The other thing is that I would want to strip out all excess weight. Eg a small high spec 12v battery (buy a lithium?), anchor in a custom triangle shaped kit bag removable when craning, ali prop not the monster heavy ss one, etc, could collectively take ~40kg out of the tender

 

[MapisM]

Thats the bit that is going to be interesting.
Is it going to fit?

After all your planning, I'm sure it will fit.
And it will look impressive, too: be prepared to be asked if your boat isn't actually an 80 footer, whenever mooring in new marinas!

 

[Hurricane]

I'm quietly sitting with bated breath on that point and hoping it fits, but knowing that you are pushing the boundaries a bit Mike. May the good luck force of the forum be with you!:encouragement: The other thing is that I would want to strip out all excess weight. Eg a small high spec 12v battery (buy a lithium?), anchor in a custom triangle shaped kit bag removable when craning, ali prop not the monster heavy ss one, etc, could collectively take ~40kg out of the tender

My calcs are that the Novurania is actually lighter than the Jetski was.
So, I'm reasonably confident.

 

[Hurricane]

After all your planning, I'm sure it will fit.
And it will look impressive, too: be prepared to be asked if your boat isn't actually an 80 footer, whenever mooring in new marinas!

Actually in marinas, I always try and look smaller if possible - keep the berthing fees down.

 

[MapisM]

LOL, yeah, I guessed so - hence my warning!
Re. weight, didn't you use only the platform for the jetsky?
I understood jfm concern as related to the f/b overhang strength.

 

[jfm]

LOL, yeah, I guessed so - hence my warning!
Re. weight, didn't you use only the platform for the jetsky?
I understood jfm concern as related to the f/b overhang strength.

At a rough guess MM I would think fly overhang is ok because on princess 67 there are 2 vertical support poles that go right down to the chine and these reduce the length of the cantilever quite a lot. I was more thinking that the crane limit is 400 kg and this novurania with battery, fuel, some bilge water etc will get to that. I realise the crane is designed with safety factor of say 4, and hurricane can perhaps use it not fully extended, so it should be ok. (I must say that when I look at my very similar crane, also rated 400kg with full boom extension, it looks like it would lift 4000kg and the weak point is the grp deck to which it is bolted!)

 

[Hurricane]

At a rough guess MM I would think fly overhang is ok because on princess 67 there are 2 vertical support poles that go right down to the chine and these reduce the length of the cantilever quite a lot. I was more thinking that the crane limit is 400 kg and this novurania with battery, fuel, some bilge water etc will get to that. I realise the crane is designed with safety factor of say 4, and hurricane can perhaps use it not fully extended, so it should be ok. (I must say that when I look at my very similar crane, also rated 400kg with full boom extension, it looks like it would lift 4000kg and the weak point is the grp deck to which it is bolted!)

I have some pics somewhere - I'll see if I can find them.
The vertical support poles run right from the bottom of the hull, through the lazerette, through the cockpit and then through the outer skin (ceiling) above the cockpit onto the actual box sections that support the flybridge overhang.
The starboard one finished about 100mm from the crane support which itself is mounted (bolted) within box sections.

Over the last couple of years, we have regularly lifted the Jetski which I'm sure is (practically) well over 400kgs at full extension of the crane.
Dry weight of the Jetski being 394kgs
We used to lift the Jetski directly off the bathing platform onto a plastic dock to starboard and it didn't quite reach the centreline of the dock.
We even pulled the Jetski a little (against the crane) to get it centered over the dock before lowering - if you know what I mean.
JW does take on a distinct list to starboard but it all seems strong enough.

Other info
The Walker Bay - 103kgs + Engine 97kgs = 200kgs
The Novurania - 217kgs + Engine 117kgs = 334kgs
I always carried several fuel tanks on the Walker Bay which would amount to the same fuel on the Novurania.
OK - you have to consider fuel in the overall weight but it would be the same for both dinghies.
Battery on the Walker Bay is the same weight as the Novurania.

Also with the Walker Bay stowed on the FB, we have often had an additional three people standing around that over hanging area.
Recently, for example, to service the crane.
I'm reasonably sure that the FB overhang is strong enough.
I also asked Princess and they thought it would be OK as well.

As I say, though - it is still an operation that I'm concerned about.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

As I say, though - it is still an operation that I'm concerned about.

IMHO, if your boat is CE marked for 10 or 12 persons, Princess would have been obliged to design the flybridge overhang on the assumption that all of those persons are standing on it at the same time unless they have put a specific notice in the instruction manual stating that there is a max number of persons/max weight allowed on the overhang, which I presume they haven't. I would be very surprised if you had any structural issues with the dead weight of the Novurania RIB up there

As jfm says, I would be far more concerned about the crane fixings to the deck, not so much because they haven't been designed to resist the load from the dead weight of the RIB, but because of the shock loadings that they would have resist from the RIB swinging around during the lifting process. IMHO you have to think about how you are going to stabilise the RIB during the lifting process. Maybe in a rough anchorage you're going to need 2 additional lines attached to the RIB with 2 crewpersons on the sidedecks holding them taut to stop the RIB swinging about? One of my abiding boating memories was watching the crew of a large yacht anchored in Portals Vells in Majorca lifting a RIB onto their flybridge and allowing the RIB to swing violently with the result that the outboard motor leg smashed through a saloon window

 

[Hurricane]

As jfm says, I would be far more concerned about the crane fixings to the deck, not so much because they haven't been designed to resist the load from the dead weight of the RIB, but because of the shock loadings that they would have resist from the RIB swinging around during the lifting process. IMHO you have to think about how you are going to stabilise the RIB during the lifting process. Maybe in a rough anchorage you're going to need 2 additional lines attached to the RIB with 2 crewpersons on the sidedecks holding them taut to stop the RIB swinging about? One of my abiding boating memories was watching the crew of a large yacht anchored in Portals Vells in Majorca lifting a RIB onto their flybridge and allowing the RIB to swing violently with the result that the outboard motor leg smashed through a saloon window

Absolutely
We learned a lesson very early on.
Anchored along the coast towards Valencia and we were recovering the dinghy (Walker Bay)
A plonker in a 60 sports boat thought it would be interesting to pass close to us and have a look.
The resulting wake swung the dinghy out at about 45 degrees.
No damage but I always check around now before lifting.

I take your point on this one though.
It will probably be necessary to have some extra people strategically placed when we launch and recover.
The reason for the extra towing eyes on the Novurania are so that we won't have to lift it as much as we have been with the Walker Bay.

 

[jfm]

Yep, +1 to all that. You soon learn (saloon window smashers being the exception!) to check for potential passing boats before lifting with the crane, or indeed recovering the dinghy on a hi-lo platform. If there are too many wakes it is better to open a beer and just wait. I also put the dinghy on the platform most nights in case I have to get out of the anchorage in a hurry, though in Hurricane's case having a tow-line rigged would serve the same purpose
I've never towed the dinghy. I might try sometime. Hurricane, it seems to me that it makes sense to buy a heavy duty floating towline, like that orange rope MYAG uses to tie his stern to rocks. Then it cannot get to the props while you are manoeuvring eg in an anchorage. Is that your thinking too?

 

[Hurricane]

Hurricane, it seems to me that it makes sense to buy a heavy duty floating towline, like that orange rope MYAG uses to tie his stern to rocks. Then it cannot get to the props while you are manoeuvring eg in an anchorage. Is that your thinking too?

I don't know yet.
It was on my list at LIBS to ask the rope people what they thought (English Braids etc)
But they only had salesmen who didn't understand my question.

I hadn't thought of a big floating rope like MYAGs
In fact I bought 118m of the stuff when I was in Carloforte (on the same order as our upgraded anchor chain)
Mine is white 25mm (from memory) - might be too thick - but it would float well.
Not used it yet - I was thinking of cutting it into two equal pieces anyway.

When the salesmen at LIBS looked blank, I suggested - maybe something like a thicker version of a water ski rope which tends to be hollow braid (could make some nice strong Brummel Eye Splices).
But I haven't yet got an answer.
The big stuff might work but it would be a bit of a PIA to dry it out all the time.