JW's Upgrades for 2016 - Tender

[MapisM]

IMHO, if your boat is CE marked for 10 or 12 persons, Princess would have been obliged to design the flybridge overhang on the assumption that all of those persons are standing on it at the same time unless they have put a specific notice in the instruction manual stating that there is a max number of persons/max weight allowed on the overhang, which I presume they haven't.

Good point, I suppose you are right with your assumption.
Btw, I meant to ask you: am I right in remembering that your F630 is marked as CE A/12 persons?
I'm asking because I recently came across a F530 registered for CE A/15 persons, which I found surprising.

 

[jfm]

Good point, I suppose you are right with your assumption.
Btw, I meant to ask you: am I right in remembering that your F630 is marked as CE A/12 persons?
I'm asking because I recently came across a F530 registered for CE A/15 persons, which I found surprising.

Mike f, I see your line of thinking that Princess "should" design the overhang so everyone can stand on it but I'll bet you they don't. They will have done some basic calcs, and possible some FEA, to calculate an overhang design that can take whatever kg number they chose, say 1000kg. Then they might have added some safety factor. But for sure they don't know the answer because they (and all other boatbuilders) do not test to destruction because that is just too expensive for a boatbuilder making perhaps 50 of each model. So the owner has to play it by ear a bit and be careful imho
As regards number of passengers, it wouldn't surprise me if princess 67 is CE marked for more than 12 people, by the way. Say 15 people. My boat is more than 12; I cant remember but it might be 18. I'll check

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I've never towed the dinghy. I might try sometime. Hurricane, it seems to me that it makes sense to buy a heavy duty floating towline, like that orange rope MYAG uses to tie his stern to rocks. Then it cannot get to the props while you are manoeuvring eg in an anchorage. Is that your thinking too?

I would say thats almost essential. We chartered a mobo in the BVI for our honeymoon an awful long time ago and the dinghy was towed behind the boat. 3 times I managed to snag the tow line when dropping the hook and reversing. The other problem is that when you do snag the tow line, the prop winds the line in pretty smartish and the dinghy tries to mate with your transom

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Good point, I suppose you are right with your assumption.
Btw, I meant to ask you: am I right in remembering that your F630 is marked as CE A/12 persons?
I'm asking because I recently came across a F530 registered for CE A/15 persons, which I found surprising.

You're right, my F630 is CE marked for A/12 persons but for sure my F53 was marked for only A/10 persons. I've just checked my photos. Yes I would find it surprising that a F53/530 was marked for 15 persons

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mike f, I see your line of thinking that Princess "should" design the overhang so everyone can stand on it but I'll bet you they don't. They will have done some basic calcs, and possible some FEA, to calculate an overhang design that can take whatever kg number they chose, say 1000kg.

Well, 1000kg is around 12-15 people anyway unless they're mikefs of course! Actually I would guess that the flybridge overhang is as much designed for stiffness in order to avoid flexing and gel coat cracking as it is designed for weight bearing

I've never heard of a flybridge overhang collapsing due to the weight of people or equipment up top? Has anyone?

 

[MapisM]

You're right, my F630 is CE marked for A/12 persons but for sure my F53 was marked for only A/10 persons. I've just checked my photos. Yes I would find it surprising that a F53/530 was marked for 15 persons

Yep, I was also surprised, but trust me, I saw it personally.
Actually, the full story is even more funny - I'll email you more details for your eyes only, as a honorary Ferretti supporter!

Re. f/b overhang, I suppose jfm is right when he says that builders don't do destruction tests, but your original point remains valid, I reckon.
I mean, if the boat is rated for 12 (or whatever) persons, and the builder doesn't restrict the max allowed weight anywhere (the only exception I can think of being the passerelle, which has a max rated weight), I don't dare thinking of the consequences for the builder, if those 12 folks would fall from the f/b into the cockpit following a structural failure...
...not to mention that, due to Murphy's law, obviously those 12 folks would all be Supreme Court Justices!

 

[Beachcoma]

Used to tow a tender regularly on a long line however when coming into an anchorage I would pull the line in or use the capstan to bring the line in and make the tender off on a short line adjacent to the stern of the boat if that makes sense. Prevents the line being able to go in the props as too short and the tender out the way for manoeuvres.

 

[Hurricane]

Used to tow a tender regularly on a long line however when coming into an anchorage I would pull the line in or use the capstan to bring the line in and make the tender off on a short line adjacent to the stern of the boat if that makes sense. Prevents the line being able to go in the props as too short and the tender out the way for manoeuvres.

Good point.
Like all things - obvious really - I will now try and make a point of doing that when maneuvering.

 

[Hurricane]

A bit more on the towing subject.

I've seen a few boats arriving in marinas with the dinghy in the water (probably after towing)
I've seen it on sailing yachts and large motor boats.

I was considering doing the same.
And attaching the dinghy to the bow when berthing Med style and keeping it there.
I was thinking that a short rope ladder would then allow us to get down off the bow into the dinghy thus making it useful whilst the mother ship was in a marina.

Do you think that this will be frowned on by the marina or other boats.

 

[MapisM]

Do you think that this will be frowned on by the marina or other boats.

I've seen that done quite often, and don't see reasons why anyone should complain, because typically a rib tied right under the bow rarely exceeds the footprint of the mother ship.
Ok, your new Novu actually is larger than the typical P67 tender, so it's probably going to take a bit more space.
But in the worst case, it's just a matter of pulling it a bit on the opposite side if/when your neighbour is moving.
Btw, depending on where you are moored, the ladder might be unnecessary.
In CF for instance I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind giving you a lift with the marina ribs whenever you want.
Which is surely more convenient than climbing/descending a rope ladder!

 

[John100156]

......I was thinking that a short rope ladder would then allow us to get down off the bow into the dinghy thus making it useful whilst the mother ship was in a marina....

A short rope ladder off your bow, have you seen how high up it is???? You'll be sending Mary down a knotted rope next, only trouble is, I know she'll be up for it.....

Just pull the tender in, send a crew ashore ready to take the lines, you can walk it around later once berthed.

 

[scubaman]

I was considering doing the same.
And attaching the dinghy to the bow when berthing Med style and keeping it there.
I was thinking that a short rope ladder would then allow us to get down off the bow into the dinghy thus making it useful whilst the mother ship was in a marina.

Do you think that this will be frowned on by the marina or other boats.

Rope ladder would be very difficult to climb under the bow where there is no vertical surface to support it.

Re. towing: a floating rope is a must. I also use one of those rubber shock absorbers on the tow rope to dampen sudden tugs while manouvering.

 

[jfm]

Fairly normal I reckon; no reason why should offend your neighbours

 

[Nick_H]

Mine is white 25mm (from memory) - might be too thick - but it would float well.

Much thicker than you need IMHO Mike. I know polyprop is a third less strong than nylon/polyester, but it's a fairly light RIB so the loads won't be that great. I'd choose 14mm, 16 max.

I also question whether you need 25mm for the stern rope, it must be a huge heavy bundle and quite difficult to handle. I have 14mm for that purpose, and would have thought 18mm would be more than enough even for your boat.

 

[petem]

Wow, do you mean that you actually made them yourself?
You should have told me that you're so good at shaping wood while you were in CF last summer.
I could have given you plenty of things to practice with, on my old tub... :encouragement:

That said, you might wish to check the structural integrity of your chocks, occasionally.
I'm saying this because I had mine made by a folk in the N Adriatic who forgot more about wood than I'll ever know.
And I was surprised to see that he made them out of several layers, glued and screwed together (see lower part of pic below).
When I asked him if a single piece wouldn't have been better, he explained me that single large teak bits are much more prone to cracking, over time.
Far from predicting (let alone wishing!) that yours will crack, but considering that my chocks were made almost 15 years ago and they are still perfect, I surely can't argue with what that guy told me...

P, as your pic shows, your method allows the grain to be at right angles for each layer thus making it much stronger.

 

[Hurricane]

Much thicker than you need IMHO Mike. I know polyprop is a third less strong than nylon/polyester, but it's a fairly light RIB so the loads won't be that great. I'd choose 14mm, 16 max.

I also question whether you need 25mm for the stern rope, it must be a huge heavy bundle and quite difficult to handle. I have 14mm for that purpose, and would have thought 18mm would be more than enough even for your boat.

Yes Nick
I've come to that conclusion.
Bought the 25mm one on impulse without thinking.
I might just use it rather than buying some fresh.

Had a long look on the internet for some polyprop - like the stuff they use for skiing.
Ideally I would like to find someone who offers 16mm to 18mm hollow braid polyprop.
Hollow braid floats better and is much easier to splice soft eyes etc.
Couldn't find anything suitable so I will probably try the big stuff and see if I can get it to work for both towing and holding off rocks etc.

 

[jfm]

...making it much stronger.

Yep, my chocks are always spontaneously breaking

 

[MapisM]

Oi, gimme a break, I was just sayin'...

 

[petem]

Yep, my chocks are always spontaneously breaking

I take it yours are of the inferior construction type !

 

[Hurricane]

Weather forecast looks ok for a sea trial this weekend in Torbay.
SWMBO is busy on Saturday so maybe we will pop down to Torquay harbour on Sunday morning.
Just got to check with the harbour office first.
Not looking forward to the cold water!!