Johnson 4hp no sparky

[bobish]

Hi, I'm new here so I hope I don't go about this the wrong way, I could really do with some advice please.

I have recently bought a very clean but old 4hp Johnson outboard model J4BRCNR which I think means it is a Euro rope start (BR) built in 1982 (CN). Not sure what the "R" at the end is though.

When I first got it in October last year it fired up but wouldn't tick over or run very well at all, I put it down to old fuel, cobwebs, etc and put it away till the weather got better. The point is it definatley fired.

Got it out yesterday, put new fuel and pulled the starter rope and nothing, tried easy start sprayed directly through carb venturi....nothing, this would normally at least get a pop or some kind of fire/combustion providing there is a spark.

So... Took the plugs out, they look healthy enough, tried shorting to the power head and pulled starter rope, no spark.

I made sure the "STOP-START-RUN-THROTTLE" lever was not in the "STOP" position. I have read online that you should disconnect the shut off switch but cant see how that is possible (not easily anyway).

I have now removed the flywheel and nearly threw up when I saw what lay beneath.....

POINTS!!!!! CONDENSORS!!!!!2 SETS OF EACH!!!!

I haven't seen points for at least 20 years since I owned an 69' Mini Cooper and that had 1 set not 2, and from what I remember they were the most complicated and unreliable piece of junk I ever came across, in my view cars went from being unreliable antiques to modern trusty steeds when they went over to electronic or CDI, it really was a huge leap in their technology IMO.

Anyway to the point, how do I tell if they are working or not? I have noticed that one of the condensors has been changed as it is brand new, is it a case of "Process of elimination"? Should I change everything one by one?

Big question...Can I change the system to CDI? I have read that some of the later models were equipped with it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, many thanks BOB

 

[bobish]

Does anyone know if this engine can be upgraded to CDI? Or am I barking (mad) up the wrong tree?

 

[rafiki_]

It is possible to convert, but these things are now so old I have no idea where you would get the kit from. Best to get the current set up to work. Do you have a spark at the points when all connected up, if you open the points with a screwdriver?

 

[bobish]

Hi thanks for replying, I do remember that trick with the screwdriver actually, must try that tomorrow, ah all these memories...not all good unfortunately, very fiddly from what I remember, and I although I always got things with points going again I was never completely sure how I did it! If it sparks my coils are good right?

 

[rafiki_]

Think so, but like you it is a long time since I tinkered with coils and condensers.

 

[bobish]

Thanks to everyone who helped me out, some really good info which I will be keeping for future reference.

I isolated problem to one of the coils, took it off and cleaned the HT spike and presto! Got two sparks! Not sure why I couldn't get one before but all seems well now, took off the carb and cleaned it and it runs... very happy, sounds like a little cracker too.

I noticed the casing around the defective coil is cracking up, other one showing signs of age too, should I change them? Like I say they are working now maybe i could apply some glue/sealant to the cracks to stop water ingress?

Also I have had it ticking over but turned it off pretty quick so I don't overheat the engine, I just wanted to ask which holes are the water inlets so I know how deep the water in the bucket needs to be and also where is the outlet, I understand they don't "squirt" water like many other o/b's do but would like to know exactly where the "mist" they create is going to be coming from.

And finally can I use motorcycle 2 stroke oil?

Many thanks, happy Bob.

 

[VicS]

Thanks to everyone who helped me out, some really good info which I will be keeping for future reference.

I isolated problem to one of the coils, took it off and cleaned the HT spike and presto! Got two sparks! Not sure why I couldn't get one before but all seems well now, took off the carb and cleaned it and it runs... very happy, sounds like a little cracker too.

I noticed the casing around the defective coil is cracking up, other one showing signs of age too, should I change them? Like I say they are working now maybe i could apply some glue/sealant to the cracks to stop water ingress?

Also I have had it ticking over but turned it off pretty quick so I don't overheat the engine, I just wanted to ask which holes are the water inlets so I know how deep the water in the bucket needs to be and also where is the outlet, I understand they don't "squirt" water like many other o/b's do but would like to know exactly where the "mist" they create is going to be coming from.

And finally can I use motorcycle 2 stroke oil?

Many thanks, happy Bob.

You figured out the meaning of the model number correctly... The final R is just a production suffix .

If the coils are cracking up change them before they let you down.

Dont run it unless in water .. or you will wreck the pump impeller before it overheats

Mount it so that the whole of the gearcase and the anti-ventilation plate at the bottom of the leg are submerged.

You are right, there is no telltale but if water is circulating OK you should see some water, a spray, a mist or droplets blown out of the back pressure relief holes on the back of the leg along with some exhaust gas.

You should be able to touch any part of the cylinder block and head, except for the exhaust manifold cover plate and the head around the spark plugs, and maintain contact for a few seconds. Any hotter means its overheating.

Two stroke motor cycle oil is formulated for air cooled engines. You should use a 2stroke outboard engine oil to TCW3 spec........ But I'd not loose any sleep over using the motorcycle oil until you get the right stuff. Quicksilver is a commonly available brand.
Mixture is 50:1

Likewise oil for the gearcase should be outboard engine gear oil ......... but I have always run my Evinrude with automotive EP90 oil in it!

Check the gear case oil . If its not clear and bright change it ( fitting new seals on the drain and level plugs) If it tends to go milky it indicates water is entering and it will need new gearcase seals.

Find the item headed "Awakening a sleeping outboard " in this list and also any others that look relevant.. ( theres a good one on adjusting OMC carbs and one on changing coils and points.) http://forums.iboats.com/engine-frequently-asked-questions-faq-31/
The Johnson/Evinrude board on the iBoats forums is a good place for help and advice. (PBO's Reader to Reader forum here at YBW.com is usually pretty helpful too)

Latest plug recommendation is Champion QL86C ( which is suppressed ) or L86C (which is not) The gap should be 0.030" ( originally 0.040") Although OMC recommended only Champion plugs I'd happily use NGK B6HS. In fact I have NGK plugs in my Evinrude

I'd not think it practical to convert to CDI but I have not investigated the possibility. There is no reason to. Points ignition will be satifactory. For reasons I know not they did use CDI for a few years and then went back to points on the 4 hp models for several years before adopting CDI again.


Good places for spares are Oakley Marine ( AKA Outboards-Direct) in Brighton http://www.outboards-direct.co.uk/ and Wills Marine in Kingsbridge http://www.willsmarine.co.uk/

Good exploded diagrams and parts lists at http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BRP/JOHNSON/parts.html

Owners manuals only available from Ken Cook Co. at http://www.outboardbooks.com/ Not genarally available on line for download.

 

[bobish]

You figured out the meaning of the model number correctly... The final R is just a production suffix .

If the coils are cracking up change them before they let you down.

Dont run it unless in water .. or you will wreck the pump impeller before it overheats

Mount it so that the whole of the gearcase and the anti-ventilation plate at the bottom of the leg are submerged.

You are right, there is no telltale but if water is circulating OK you should see some water, a spray, a mist or droplets blown out of the back pressure relief holes on the back of the leg along with some exhaust gas.

You should be able to touch any part of the cylinder block and head, except for the exhaust manifold cover plate and the head around the spark plugs, and maintain contact for a few seconds. Any hotter means its overheating.

Two stroke motor cycle oil is formulated for air cooled engines. You should use a 2stroke outboard engine oil to TCW3 spec........ But I'd not loose any sleep over using the motorcycle oil until you get the right stuff. Quicksilver is a commonly available brand.
Mixture is 50:1

Likewise oil for the gearcase should be outboard engine gear oil ......... but I have always run my Evinrude with automotive EP90 oil in it!

Check the gear case oil . If its not clear and bright change it ( fitting new seals on the drain and level plugs) If it tends to go milky it indicates water is entering and it will need new gearcase seals.

Find the item headed "Awakening a sleeping outboard " in this list and also any others that look relevant.. ( theres a good one on adjusting OMC carbs and one on changing coils and points.) http://forums.iboats.com/engine-frequently-asked-questions-faq-31/
The Johnson/Evinrude board on the iBoats forums is a good place for help and advice. (PBO's Reader to Reader forum here at YBW.com is usually pretty helpful too)

Latest plug recommendation is Champion QL86C ( which is suppressed ) or L86C (which is not) The gap should be 0.030" ( originally 0.040") Although OMC recommended only Champion plugs I'd happily use NGK B6HS. In fact I have NGK plugs in my Evinrude

I'd not think it practical to convert to CDI but I have not investigated the possibility. There is no reason to. Points ignition will be satifactory. For reasons I know not they did use CDI for a few years and then went back to points on the 4 hp models for several years before adopting CDI again.


Good places for spares are Oakley Marine ( AKA Outboards-Direct) in Brighton http://www.outboards-direct.co.uk/ and Wills Marine in Kingsbridge http://www.willsmarine.co.uk/

Good exploded diagrams and parts lists at http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BRP/JOHNSON/parts.html

Owners manuals only available from Ken Cook Co. at http://www.outboardbooks.com/ Not genarally available on line for download.

Thanks Vic, some really good info in that post.

Got her running today in wheelie bin, pumping water fine, doesn't seem to be overheating and engages gear ok, can't get her to idle at the gear change indicator (guess thats what it is as the gear lever has a similar indicator/label) but will tick over just (3/4 inch) below the red line start point, any lower and it sounds like it wants to stall so I adjusted the carb needle as per the resource thread on here, but not convinced I'm getting it right.

I wonder where the throttle should be at idle? At the gear change indicator? I also have no clue what the idle speed would be or sound like.

Also I noticed a small amount of fuel dripping from the carb venturi and running down the float bowl, not when its running but during starting, this made me think the the carb jet is set too high/open but it still did this after adjusting the jet, so maybe a float issue? It does have the old cork type and I'm sure I read on here that they fill up so maybe its not shutting off and fuel is rising through the main jet and altering the mixture there so adjusting the idle jet would be useless. I guess.....

Anyway I feel like I'm getting somewhere with this now. Thanks again to all involved in helping me rescue this outboard.