Jobs for the boys

zoidberg

Well-known member
Joined
12 Nov 2016
Messages
6,359
Visit site
Posted on another noticeboard....

50929103007_b3414785e3.jpg



An 'apprenticeship', eh? 15-18 months long..... 2 GCSEs wanted..... Would surely suit someone in 'ere. :LOL:
 

Skylark

Well-known member
Joined
4 Jun 2007
Messages
7,419
Location
Home: North West, Boat: The Clyde
Visit site
Intrigued, I looked-up the definition of an “apprenticeship”.

The best, in my view, was “to enable the practitioner to gain a license to practice in a regulated profession”.

Another website stated that it “must last a minimum of 12 months”

My favourite was “having agreed to work for a fixed period with low wages”

Sadly, I view today’s use of the term as a general dumbing down of a once highly valued qualification.

I enjoyed mine, in the 1970s, so much that I managed to spin it out for 7 years. Probably the most influential period of my life. Happy days ?
 

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
42,545
Visit site
Apprenticeship was not in itself a qualification, but a process, which ranged from "learning from Nellie" to (as in most engineering apprenticeships) attending day release or night school to get a recognised qualification relevant to your work.

What is different about the new apprenticeships is that they have to be linked to a post GCSE qualification - as in this case. The types of qualifications required are much more wide ranging in both scope and challenge. Part of the drive to improve education post 16 and make it relevant to work. Much of the well known skills gap in the UK is the result of the big gap between school and academic qualifications that leaves a large number of young people totally unsuited to work, and the traditional cannon fodder factory jobs are no longer there to mop them up. Apprenticeships are also gaining ground as an alternative to conventional university education. They are mostly linked to GCSE entry and lead to qualifications equivalent to A level allowing the option to progress to degree level. Very popular in technical areas. My grandson has one in IT with Sainsbury, earning a good salary and learning on the job. Also A level entry schemes are opening up leading to professional qualifications such as for Law and Accountancy - shades of the old articles!

To me this is really encouraging having seen first hand the number of youngsters entering university that were not suited for it. We can thank Blair for that. Fortunately most that survived the experience seem to make their way, but the drop out rate was huge.
 

Sandy

Well-known member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
21,914
Location
On the Celtic Fringe
duckduckgo.com
Good to see that Sutton are taking on an apprentice, if every marina in the UK did this there would be good number of young people with a job.

It might be worth reminding everybody that there is a requirement to pass English and Mathematics at a GCSE Pass 4 or above or you need to sit it again and again until you leave education at 18; a rather horrible torture for many.
 

Fimacca

Active member
Joined
31 Mar 2013
Messages
425
Location
Somerset
Visit site
There is likely to be a payment for sutton to employ the two. I cannot recall the subsidy amount they can claim.
Would be a grand job in the sunshine, and the lads or ladies doing it are likely to get crew experience and get sailing quals if not just powerboat - if they play it right.
 

Adios

...
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
2,390
Visit site
I did my school work experience fortnight at Foxes Marina in Ipswich in the late 80s. They made zero effort to explain the various types of work that would be involved if I'd take a job after school (I thought that was the idea) Instead they just found some manual labour that was simple enough for the 2 of us and kept us out of the way doing that until we went back to school. Didn't get as much as a 5 minute trip in a boat or anything at all interesting. Pretty much killed my enthusiasm for the marine industry.
 
Last edited:

V1701

Well-known member
Joined
1 Oct 2009
Messages
4,632
Location
South Coast UK
Visit site
I was bored silly at school, left to start an apprenticeship in a tyre factory (1982). The one day per week at tech college was great so I sacked off the apprenticeship & continued my education at the colIege. I agree that now there is a balance that needs to be redressed in terms of the expectation that just about every 18 year old goes to uni. Unpaid internships should be banned though IMO...
 

Adios

...
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
2,390
Visit site
Which reminds me, 2 friends of mine did their work experience at a marine engineers at a not too distant other marina. They went out on a speed boat, but the funny thing which we didn't really appreciate the significance of at the time, they were asked to bring some female friends from school (not hard to find some willing to have a free trip on a speedboat) who were then photographed in bikinis on the boat. :unsure: Jimi Saville days
 

luke collins

Active member
Joined
22 Oct 2020
Messages
215
Visit site
We try to take on one apprentice a year. We are only a small company but I think it’s important for future proofing businesses that require hands on skills and to support our country and economy. The government grants are pretty poor although the college C&G courses are paid in pull. We have trained/invested and now see the fruits of several talented young engineers. Looking at how things are currently I think there may be a shift towards work based learning for the next few years. The universities IMO are ripping off the students, the fees are over charged and I am not sure people get enough life experience any longer at uni.
 

mjcoon

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jun 2011
Messages
4,660
Location
Berkshire, UK
www.mjcoon.plus.com
Which reminds me, 2 friends of mine did their work experience at a marine engineers at a not too distant other marina. They went out on a speed boat, but the funny thing which we didn't really appreciate the significance of at the time, they were asked to bring some female friends from school (not hard to find some willing to have a free trip on a speedboat) who were then photographed in bikinis on the boat. :unsure: Jimi Saville days
There should be no comparison between a fortnight's "work experience" and an apprenticeship (mine was 4 years long). Still, a shame to waste the opportunity, probably just to get some government grant...
 

Adios

...
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
2,390
Visit site
There should be no comparison between a fortnight's "work experience" and an apprenticeship (mine was 4 years long). Still, a shame to waste the opportunity, probably just to get some government grant...
I don't think there was any money in it for them, more of a community service. But if you're not going to do a job properly better not to offer. It wouldn't have been hard to make it seem like somewhere we'd want to work rather than making it seem even less interesting than school.
 

Daydream believer

Well-known member
Joined
6 Oct 2012
Messages
21,282
Location
Southminster, essex
Visit site
I did my school work experience fortnight at Foxes Marina in Ipswich in the late 80s. They made zero effort to explain the various types of work that would be involved if I'd take a job after school (I thought that was the idea) Instead they just found some manual labour that was simple enough for the 2 of us and kept us out of the way doing that until we went back to school. Didn't get as much as a 5 minute trip in a boat or anything at all interesting. Pretty much killed my enthusiasm for the marine industry.
So one bad employer or one disinterested youth makes the whole scheme a failure does it?
Ok tell Sutton not to bother advertising for 2 lads shall we? That will help. Thanks for the input:unsure:
 

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
42,545
Visit site
We try to take on one apprentice a year. We are only a small company but I think it’s important for future proofing businesses that require hands on skills and to support our country and economy. The government grants are pretty poor although the college C&G courses are paid in pull. We have trained/invested and now see the fruits of several talented young engineers. Looking at how things are currently I think there may be a shift towards work based learning for the next few years. The universities IMO are ripping off the students, the fees are over charged and I am not sure people get enough life experience any longer at uni.
University is about more than the qualification - the "right of passage" element is a big draw for many. Don't think too many worry about the cost or the notional debt, as most will never need to pay it, and those that are successful in earning the higher salaries will just see it as an extra tax. Having spent 30 years of my working life in that environment I have seen all the big changes and to my mind, for business and engineering in its widest sense, the sandwich degree was the best model for that level. The year doing a proper job rather than a short term internship was the making of many young people - and a good deal for employers. in the course I was responsible for, more than half the students would get sponsorship from their year out employer for the final year and often a job offer on graduation. Equally a great fan of mature students going on to HE after a period of work once they get a feel for what they want to do. I did my first degree in my mid 30s after a busy early career that was founded as much on being in the right place rather than having the academic background.

Now I am encouraged by the growth in work based learning, but it is still seen by many as second class.
 

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
42,545
Visit site
So one bad employer or one disinterested youth makes the whole scheme a failure does it?
Ok tell Sutton not to bother advertising for 2 lads shall we? That will help. Thanks for the input:unsure:
That is very unfair. What was being described was a typical 2 week work experience at secondary school, not a structured apprenticeship which is the subject of the first post.
 

Adios

...
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
2,390
Visit site
So one bad employer or one disinterested youth makes the whole scheme a failure does it?
Ok tell Sutton not to bother advertising for 2 lads shall we? That will help. Thanks for the input:unsure:
Well hopefully no one else misunderstood my post. I'm just reminiscing on my bad experience of school work experience. If anything I'd take a complaint that it was off topic but it was certainly nothing like a criticism of a company who is offering apprenticeships. Hopefully they are doing a good job and not just taking advantage of low wage labour as others suggested. Its a tough one for companies as well though. How often do they spend time and money training someone and then the apprentice takes a slightly better offer at the drop of a hat from someone who can afford to offer a bit more as they didn't invest in training.
 

Daydream believer

Well-known member
Joined
6 Oct 2012
Messages
21,282
Location
Southminster, essex
Visit site
That is very unfair. What was being described was a typical 2 week work experience at secondary school, not a structured apprenticeship which is the subject of the first post.
With due respect, I commented on the post that was made. Perhaps if the comment had been about structured apprenticeships I may have commented on that instead
 

mjcoon

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jun 2011
Messages
4,660
Location
Berkshire, UK
www.mjcoon.plus.com
With due respect, I commented on the post that was made. Perhaps if the comment had been about structured apprenticeships I may have commented on that instead
Perhaps you commented rather than reading. Amongst other things Tranona said was: "the sandwich degree was the best model for that level". This was exactly what my "structured apprenticeship" consisted in. But I have to admit that the year out of college that the "thick" sandwich provided was not really a "proper job". Instead it was a succession of training projects which were very involving and could not possibly be described as cheap labour. Happy days back in the early 1960s...
 

Daydream believer

Well-known member
Joined
6 Oct 2012
Messages
21,282
Location
Southminster, essex
Visit site
Well hopefully no one else misunderstood my post. I'm just reminiscing on my bad experience of school work experience. If anything I'd take a complaint that it was off topic but it was certainly nothing like a criticism of a company who is offering apprenticeships. Hopefully they are doing a good job and not just taking advantage of low wage labour as others suggested. Its a tough one for companies as well though. How often do they spend time and money training someone and then the apprentice takes a slightly better offer at the drop of a hat from someone who can afford to offer a bit more as they didn't invest in training.
I spent 20 years representing industry on the construction industry training board. & one would always hear the argument " we train apprentices then as soon as they qualify they are off for more money. The CITB was good because everybody had to contribute & those that trained could get grants. At one time it was proposed that all industries had their own training boards. unfortunately this was abandoned & Only the CITB ( I think there may be a couple more, not sure) still exists
I think that it is a pity that these boards have been discontinued. industry then pay for their own trainees . Having been forced to pay a levy they are more likely to claim it back by training someone rather than not bother.

But ask . if your apprentice leaves for more money, why, if he was any good did you not pay him the going rate yourself?
 
Top