Jet skis - solution

[SlowlyButSurely]

Re: 1 benefit

David,

Doesn't being in a minority of 1 cause you to reconsider your views at all?

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[DavidBolger]

Re: 1 benefit

As I said, discussion formulates solutions. It is not a weakness to have the ability to alter your views following open discussion. It is a weakness to look at a discussion and gloat when people are open and willing to listen to others.

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[tcm]

Re: 1 benefit

Visas: The entry regulations to france needed no visas pre-EU, so why would it do so afterwards. In fact, entry regs tio france are MORE strict now, with children needing real passport and post-office-style passports discontinued. If they really wanted visas, then you get one stamped and then all okay for a number of years.

The euro etc. "Against the will of the people" - i see your point. But we vote in/out politicians, and by no means is all they do is in accordance with the will of the people. Going to war might be one, but raising taxes isn't a popular ooh yess please choice. By contrast, the EU commission is populated not by peeps who have been elected but by quite the reverse! - qv kinnock, the most voted-against uk party leader of modern times. Other examples too of losing politicians winning unlected power , tory and labour, and in france too. Difference with uk govt is that we can chuckem all out.

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[Twister_Ken]

On lifejackets

As an old seadog (pass me another biscuit someone, there's not enough weevil in this one), I more usually wear an LJ than not. But in conditions such as we've had over the last few days (good motoring weather) my experience tells me that an LJ is/was not neccessary. Undoubtedly this makes me a bad person, as does my constant faiure to wear a crash hat in case of being hit on the head by the boom, a full immersion suit in case I end up in the water and cannot be quickly recovered, a personal EPIRB in case the vessel loses touch with me, miniflares (ditto), etc.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[tcm]

Re: I nominate me

I will happily act as the Nautical Policing Tsar.

I anticipate an initial requirement of two police boat dawn til dusk in poole area, five in the solent, three in the thames, three inthe west country, making 13 in all, each costing 100k, with a standby in each area and two standbys in solent plus spares etc makes 20, £2million. Staff requirement wil need two shifts of two-man crew plus standbys, say 30, plus a coordinator and shorebased backup/mechanics in each area, add 12 more. Salary bill with training about £1.5 million, plus other equipment say 500k, another £2million. Premises for each area probably might get away with 200k a year all-in. Promotional and eductaional budget a further 800k, plus my remuneration and expenses for peeps flying about and so on make it around £200k, plus audit, safety etc costs, near another 2million. Six million in year 1, and the boats wil be shagged and need replacing almost every year, so make it six million every year. Add 20% contingency plus another 25 percent overhead for colecting the tax, means ten million. Easiest will be to levy/colect from local marinas so about 20000 boats will pay this, 500 quid each.


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[tcm]

Re: 1 benefit

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous response

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[jimi]

I also have a solution

These PWC drivers crave excitement in their life and I wish to aid them in their quest. I nominate the range area at St Aldelm as PWC only area, there's lots of waves to play with, the navy can take pot shots at them thus improving the RN's moving target skills rather than just trying to hit a couple of old yellow cans. Chapman's Pool can be developed as PWC centre of excellence. What do you think?

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[DavidBolger]

Re: I nominate me

So what's your solution?

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[tcm]

Answer The Questions!

This is always the response from the pro-lobby. They are "disappointed", as though we are little children. Us anti's are "nutters" or we have "closed minds", or are extremists to quote tblair.

But they never answer the questions. EXACTLY what are the advantages of staying in and EXACTLY what are the benefits we've had so far? They are not "obvious" at all. Note: the answer used by E Currie that "we don't want to be like Iceland, do we?" won't wash, and neither will the general touchy-feely answer that invoke sunshine and "being part of it" which is queuejoiners argument.

Fact is, there aren't any, are there. No. Cos if I asked a salesman the advantages of buying a boat (ooh, relevant!) they coiuld reel off whole loads of lovely features and benefits of owning even the most manky craft.

However, if they were sort-of conmen intent on taxing/taking lots of money away for no reason/benefit, then they'd have no option but to scrunch their eyebrows in pitiful disdain and say something like "Well, i'm disappointed that you cannot even see the obvious benefits, you seem to be an extremist isolationist nutter with a very closed mind, cos all these other people have joined the scheme, are you sure you want to be left out in the cold, hm?" Sounds familair? Tell me otherwise. List the benefits, past and present.



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[tcm]

Re: I nominate me

Erm , I was following through with yours! I too think that there should be policing. It works well in France, in busy med areas. I was illustrating the likely costs, sorry about the silly tone, not meant to mock the whole idea, just to make it more readable. Do these costs mean it's a non-starter? Can't see how they would be any less really. Using volunteers would mean less direct salaries, but more training and backup staff, no less cost really. Dumping the collection onto the marinas seems the best way, easier than trying to colect from individuals, and also charges visitors pro rata.

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[jimi]

Re: I nominate me

Do'nt need all these policemen. Just need one and a hefty enough penalty! Let the Policeman work on a commission only basis and it'll be self financing, bit like speed cameras really.

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[ccscott49]

Re: On lifejackets

You forgot the "airpocket" breathing equipment, for use when the rescuing helicopter falls out of the air, with the glide characteristics of a brick and sinks, so you can escape from it underwater.

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[ccscott49]

Re: 1 benefit

OK, when did british people require a visa to viisit france? Come on when? Waterloo? Please I would love to know, certainly not in my lifetime!

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[ponapay]

Re: 16yr old Jet Skier killed in Cork

I believe that any person 'driving' or in charge of a power driven vessel (as defined in the IRPC act) should have completed succesfully a practical and written test before they are permitted to take such a vessel on the water AND that there should be a minimum age limit of 16 years for unsupervised operation of such a vessel.



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[Alistairr]

Re: I nominate me

Why not do what they did with motor bikes/Scooters.. Before getting on them you have to sit a CBT (i think thats what it is).
Introduce it for Jetski's/bikes Only. Everytime a dealer sell a new or used one they Have to put the purchaser through some basic Training first

I'm not sorry, But i am a responsable Powerboat and Jetski Owner....

.


<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hamptonandmcmurray.co.uk>Hampton and McMurray</A>

Petrol Rules..

 

[MainlySteam]

Re: 16yr old Jet Skier killed in Cork

Personally I don't think that people should be allowed to swim either until they have a licence and have undertaken a practical test - much more dangerous activity. And do not tell me that a drowning person only damages themselves, plenty of people drown trying to rescue them.

Then there's motor mowers, chainsaws, bicycles, heaters, tree climbing, crossing the road, climbing ladders, etc. etc. We should, at least, all go on courses and get certificates confirming our competence with them. And, oh yes, there was an interesting aviation article in Australia some years back which showed fewer people died flying on commercial aircraft than did (proportionally) watching TV - thats why you have to have TV licences in some countries I expect?

John

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[jimi]

Licensed Premises

This is of course why all our pubs are licenced, so we can go in and drink as much as we want without harming ourselves.

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[Alistairr]

Re: 16yr old Jet Skier killed in Cork

Whats interesting is that everything you have listed above, as you say doesn't reqiure a licence.
But use any of them including boats of any type Commercially, and you do require the nessary training/licences.

We have a big issue with 'Health And Safety at Work' In this country, So why not H&S at leisure as well?



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hamptonandmcmurray.co.uk>Hampton and McMurray</A>

Petrol Rules..

 

[Rob_Webb]

High-tech solution

OK, I'm bored at home and the painkillers are playing tricks with my mind but here's my idea:

1. To drive a jet-ski you have to attend a course at significant cost
2. On completion you get a personalised licence which includes a thumbprint-activated 'chipped' key
3. Any jet-ski only works when the rider inserts a chipped licence key which is valid and current - the thumbprint bit means it can't be transferred to allow a non-licenced rider to drive the jet-ski
4. The licence expires after 12 months and requires a refresher course to reactivate the key. You could apply age limits too.
5. Every jet-ski has to have a clear registration number emblazened on it
6. Anyone who gets pissed off by one can call the CG and quote the ID no. of the jet-ski - the CG presses a button and it sends a warning signal/light/beeper to the specific jet-ski and logs on his licence. Further complaints in a certain time allow CG to press button again to cause jet-ski to cut-out instantly
7. The jet-skis can only operate at full speed in designated areas where proximity signals from marker buoys 'enable' the thing to go full-pelt
8. Anywhere outside the buoyed proximity area and the thing will only go 4 kts
9. In some sensitive areas/anchorages/harbours proximity signals cause the jet-skis to cut-out, with sufficient warning signs to make it fair
10. You could apply an electronic curfew by disabling the things after dusk
etc
etc
etc
I'm on a real roll now.... must be lots of other high-tech-related possibilities but maybe this is getting daft!

OK, bound to be some flaws here and lots of practicalities to iron out but could this work given the right technology? Clearly expensive but build it into the cost of jet-skis and/or the licences - would result in only really keen ones getting out on the water.


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[Rob_Webb]

Re: 16yr old Jet Skier killed in Cork

Crikey John - isn't it nearly 1am with you?!

Rob

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