It's official we can now go sailing again!

[Lucky Duck]

They have 'form' in that regard as they were the ones telling boatyards to close when the opinion of bodies such as the RYA was that there no legal requirement for them to do so.

 

[DennisF]

Is there a ban on overnight still? I couldn't see anything specific in the para on boating but staying in a second home is still banned and a requirement to return to your main residence at night?

Anchored somewhere quiet would be in the spirit of scoial distancing and make no demand on unopened visitor facilities?

By the letter of guidance probably not allowed: “Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose is not allowed. This includes visiting second homes.“. It’s not mentioned staying on a boat specifically.....

Coronavirus outbreak FAQs: what you can and can't do

 

[Lightwave395]

Cowes harbour Statement on Marine Leisure Activities​

Apologies if someone beat me to it: Following this week’s UK Government announcements on the phased lifting of COVID-19 restrictions across the economy, Cowes Harbour Commission (CHC) recognises that there has been understandable interest from many leisure users who want to get back out on the water. The Government has not yet issued any specific guidance on leisure marine activities and a number of important issues surrounding the potential reopening of marinas, slipways, pontoons etc. and access to leisure vessels still require urgent clarification by Government. Although it is expected that specific Government advice will confirm that certain sailing activities and watersports will be able to start shortly, marine leisure facilities around the country will need to be assessed and prepared to accommodate social distancing and hygiene measures. The British Ports Association (BPA) and UK Harbour Master’s Association (UKHMA) have been in daily contact with relevant Government departments and are assured that further guidance is expected to be released shortly. The more general Transport Sector guidance released today, 12th May 2020, makes it clear that organisations are expected to consider it in full and translate its principles and examples into specific actions. To comply with their legal Health and Safety obligations organisations also need to ensure that risk assessments (which take account of relevant guidance) have been carried out and suitable policies and procedures put in place. To do this properly and safely takes time, to ensure safety for users, staff and also the public. This also means that there are likely to be certain measures we all need to follow that could alter what leisure users can do. The BPA and UKHMA have therefore suggested that Cowes Harbour Commission considers waiting for the more specific guidance to be issued before easing our current restrictions. The intervening period can be used to consider the newly released Transport Sector guidance and to prepare the relevant policies and procedures. These can then be adapted following the release of the more specific guidance. For the safety of everyone, recreational marine leisure users are asked to remain patient and understanding as the BPA and UKHMA continue to cooperate and work closely with Government. Cowes Harbour Commission will be in touch again with stakeholders shortly once we have a further update. In the meantime, CHC is developing our opening plans for our marine service sites at Shepards Marina, the Cowes Harbour Services Boatyard and Fuel Berth, and we hope to be able to confirm full details to all our customers as soon as possible. Please also read Cowes Local Notice to Mariners No. 14(T) of 2020 that has just been issued. Capt. Stuart McIntosh - Cowes Harbour Master​

 

[Babylon]

By the letter of guidance probably not allowed: “Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose is not allowed. This includes visiting second homes.“. It’s not mentioned staying on a boat specifically.....

Coronavirus outbreak FAQs: what you can and can't do

Thanks for that Dennis

My own boat is a vessel not a home (for liveaboards it is their only home of course) and, as you helpfully point out, staying on a boat is not specifically mentioned.

There's no point in me making a 4-hour round trip plus all the basic (and higher-risk) shoreside malarkey to get out to my boat, to then not spend a whole week on it... including heading straight to Studland to flog a few seahorses!

I think the wisest thing anyone can do is "stay alert" and be sensible and proportional, whilst jolly well getting on with as much normal life as possible.

 

[alexincornwall]

The Carrick Roads are now open.


NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that new advice has been received from Government concerning the use of recreational craft on the 13th May. The new advice received from DEFRA relating to use of outdoor spaces confirms that:
“All forms of water sports practiced on open waterways, including sailing, windsurfing,
canoeing, rowing, kayaking, surfing, paddle-boarding and the use of privately-owned
motorised craft (in line with the guidance issued by the relevant navigation authority)
are allowed.”
No specific guidance has yet been received on the operation of facilities such as slipways
and marinas which provide access to the harbour for recreational users. Operators of
facilities are advised to consider all relevant guidance relating to the safe conduct of their
businesses and ensure that the appropriate safety arrangements are in place before resuming
operations. It may be necessary for operators of certain facilities where social distancing
precautions are complex to wait for more specific guidance to be published before making a
decision on whether and when to open.
Port Notice to Mariners number 8 of 2020 is cancelled
HARBOUR OFFICE FALMOUTH
TR11 3JQ
M J SANSOM HARBOUR MASTER

 

[Seven Spades]

By the letter of guidance probably not allowed: “Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home for a holiday or other purpose is not allowed. This includes visiting second homes.“. It’s not mentioned staying on a boat specifically.....

Coronavirus outbreak FAQs: what you can and can't do

Boris said he wanted people to take a pragmatic approach. A vessel is not a home and clearly being at anchor is not a risk to anyone and lets face it the restrictions were all about distancing. There is a massive difference between a caravan park with kids running around everywhere BBq'ing and being on a boat, to suggest that the risk are the same is both disingenuous and stupid. If anyone wants to be pedantic, I guess you will have to stay on watch at night or go night sailing and doze during the day.

 

[Iliade]

I just antifouled: Arrived at ~0300, moved to scrubbing posts. Nodded off until tide dropped enough. Scrubbed and antifouled then nodded off until the tide finished rising. A total of some six hours sleep, not much different to a 'normal' night's sleep, but not staying overnight so that's fine.

The rules are mad, but I guess the rule makers are considering the vast bulk of the populace, not the few who want to overnight up some mosquito infested creek in the middle of nowhere...

 

[RobF]

With regards to the overnight question, Coronavirus – guidance on accessing green spaces safely notes that

There are no restrictions on how far you can travel to get to the countryside. However you should not stay overnight. Campsites and caravan parks are closed and you cannot visit a holiday or second home.

 

[RobF]

I just antifouled: Arrived at ~0300, moved to scrubbing posts. Nodded off until tide dropped enough. Scrubbed and antifouled then nodded off until the tide finished rising. A total of some six hours sleep, not much different to a 'normal' night's sleep, but not staying overnight so that's fine.

The rules are mad, but I guess the rule makers are considering the vast bulk of the populace, not the few who want to overnight up some mosquito infested creek in the middle of nowhere...

It does seem odd that it is safer to do a 6 hour round trip to the 'countryside' than it is to stay overnight in a cabin that you've partially inhabited whilst practicing a form of watersports. However, I am pretty sure it's to dissuade hordes of people from densely populated areas going camping etc in more rural areas and potentially spreading the virus.

 

[Daverw]

Note the use of the word ”should” and not “Cannot”, I suggest this bits important

 

[TimfromMersea]

Legally very important . ‘Should’ or ‘should not’ is for guidance. ‘Shall’ or ‘shall not’, ‘must’ or ‘must not’ are mandatory.

This whole document would probably have the legal status of guidance, which is not law. The law is contained only in the legislation and its up to the learned Judge how he interprets the legislation when it comes to court. However it is usually a defence to a charge under relevant legislation that you were following the governments own published material .

 

[SimonFa]

Just received this from Weymouth;

Further to my message last night we have received the following guidance message for all harbours:

We have been following the Government’s advice in respect of Coronavirus and are putting measures in place to limit risks to port users, our staff, emergency services and the public. Although the Government is now easing certain aspects of the lockdown in England, there is not yet any specific advice on whether this is applicable to marine leisure activities. The British Ports Association and the UK Harbour Masters’ Association are seeking clarification on this with the Government at national level. Specific guidance is expected shortly. Therefore until we have confirmation that marine leisure activities are permitted and any relevant restrictions on them, we are advising that they should not take place. The safety of our port users is paramount.

Furthermore, even when we are able to reopen our facilities, users should be aware that practices to preserve social distancing will be needed as is prescribed in Government advice issued this week (and further specific guidance to be issued). This means that we may need a short period of time to assess risks and modify arrangements. In the meantime we thank you for your patience and understanding. We share your wish to see safe recreational marine activities again and to kick start the summer season as soon as is practically possible.

We will keep you informed as the situation develops.

I can only assume this was drafted before the above guidance was issued

Portland marina is open. I was down there today and everything was going smoothly. I checked the Portland Harbour NTMs and couldn’t find any restrictions on leisure sailing but I will check before I go out. (still got a fair bit of maintenance to finish).

Looking at some of the other responses, when did we become a society that needs permission to do somethin? It used to be that if something was expressly forbidden it was permitted.

 

[Lucky Duck]

The latest NTM from Weymouth says the place is open but then tries to restrict boat movements so they are not away overnight including those going to Portland.

 

[Greemble]

However, I am pretty sure it's to dissuade hordes of people from densely populated areas going camping etc in more rural areas and potentially spreading the virus.

This.
Exactly this.

Along the same lines, they are probably wanting to dissuade hordes of people from densely populated areas going marinas, boatyards, etc. in more rural areas (Norfolk Broads, Lake District, small Harbours & rivers))and potentially spreading the virus.

Yes, it's really silly to drive six hours to a boat, drive another six hours home & repeat the next day instead of just staying overnight. However, the point is to discourage people from doing just that.

I know, not what anyone wants to acknowledge, but sorry folks, it's not over yet.

 

[Seven Spades]

Let’s get something clear here. The guidance says specifically that “normal boating activities” may resume. It does not qualify this by saying daytime sailing only. A vessel is not a second home it is a mode of transport. The restrictions that have been imposed were designed to keep the R rate down and for no other reason.

The people who are suggesting that boating is limited to day sails are the same people who would have prevented us from returning to sailing in the first place. The government does not want to limit the activities of people that do no harm. Carp fishermen will now resume all night fishing for example. We do not have a curfew in England.

Anchoring is a normal boating activity so is picking up a mooring it is exactly what the government wants it is socially isolating.

 

[SimonFa]

This.
Exactly this.

Along the same lines, they are probably wanting to dissuade hordes of people from densely populated areas going marinas, boatyards, etc. in more rural areas (Norfolk Broads, Lake District, small Harbours & rivers))and potentially spreading the virus.

Yes, it's really silly to drive six hours to a boat, drive another six hours home & repeat the next day instead of just staying overnight. However, the point is to discourage people from doing just that.

I know, not what anyone wants to acknowledge, but sorry folks, it's not over yet.

And if I don't sleep overnight and return the next day to continue maintenance, as I will be doing today and probably Friday, so I can sail Saturday, am I making unnecessary journeys?

Dorset Council is keeping all council run car parks (except the Swannery in Weymouth) and toilets closed to discourage visitors and is actively acting them not to come. Great, they're now encourage idiotic and dangerous parking and use of public areas as toilets. Idiots will always idiot, no need to punish the general public.

 

[dansaskip]

Although it is expected that specific Government advice will confirm that certain sailing activities and watersports will be able to start shortly, marine leisure facilities around the country will need to be assessed and prepared to accommodate social distancing and hygiene measures.
....... To comply with their legal Health and Safety obligations organisations also need to ensure that risk assessments (which take account of relevant guidance) have been carried out and suitable policies and procedures put in place. To do this properly and safely takes time, ........

For the safety of everyone, recreational marine leisure users are asked to remain patient and understanding as the BPA and UKHMA continue to cooperate and work closely with Government.

How much time do they need - they have already had what 7 weeks is it to plan and prepare for the eventually of restrictions being lifted.
What have they been doing all this time?

 

[Lucky Duck]

If the River Hamble harbour master's Facebook account is to be believed- interacting with the stray avians and not seeing the irony in posting pictures of crowded footpaths running along the river banks

Edit - forgot all the 'passive aggressive' posts on the lockdown

 

[bdh198]

Let’s get something clear here. The guidance says specifically that “normal boating activities” may resume. It does not qualify this by saying daytime sailing only. A vessel is not a second home it is a mode of transport. The restrictions that have been imposed were designed to keep the R rate down and for no other reason.

The people who are suggesting that boating is limited to day sails are the same people who would have prevented us from returning to sailing in the first place. The government does not want to limit the activities of people that do no harm. Carp fishermen will now resume all night fishing for example. We do not have a curfew in England.

Anchoring is a normal boating activity so is picking up a mooring it is exactly what the government wants it is socially isolating.

If you are “sleeping” on your boat then that is where you risk being in breach of the law. Under the Regulations a person cannot be “...outside of the place where they are living without a reasonable excuse”.

The reasonable excuse that the government appear to believe allows boating and sailing is the new paragraph 6(2)(ba) “...to visit a public open space for the purpose of open air recreation....” as this is the change which has led to the specific guidance allowing boating and sailing. Arguably the reasonable excuse under paragraph 6(2)(b) - “exercise” - could also apply. However, if you are “asleep” on your boat it is difficult to see how you argue that you were engaging in exercise!

So, would sleeping on your boat afford you a reasonable excuse under 6(2)(ab)? Well, the government guidance says not, but as rightly pointed out it is only ‘guidance’ and not legally enforceable - although a court is likely to be guided in their decision as to whether your actions were lawful and their interpretation of the legislation by the government guidance (and particularly a lay bench sitting in the magistrates’ court). Personally, I think one issue that could be important is the place your boat is located when you are sleeping. If you are in a marina then it will be more difficult to argue that you are visiting a “public open space for the purpose of recreation”. That is because the interpretation of “public open space” for 6(2)(ab) is found under Regulation 6(5) and in particular is defined as a place “...used for the purpose of recreation by members of the public”. I suspect a court will interpret a marina as more akin to a caravan park and primarily as a place to keep your boat and not a place that is used for the purpose of recreation. However, if you were anchored in a bay, then there is a much stronger argument that you are in a place “used for the purpose of recreation” and which you are “visiting” for “open air recreation to promote you physical and mental health or emotional well-being”.

Therefore, if you are planning on staying on your boat, do it at anchor somewhere pretty, which may afford a defence under the Regulations, but at the very least will make it more difficult for PC Plod to coming knocking on your cabin door !

 

[Lucky Duck]

Please bear in mind that the definitions provided of 'public open space' is not exhaustive and there is a certain irony that national parks are explicit included but they are busy trying dissuade us from visiting.

As noted in another thread staying onboard on your own marinas may not be a relaxing experience and all the harbour authorities I am aware of have banned overnight visits.