Is yacht handling

[Tranona]

Get a life? Have you joined the rude brigade
To be honest I have been here 25 years, I think the boat handling skills have deminished over this time, lot relying on thrusters than lining up.
It's fun to watch when it's not endangering you.

Not rude at all - you come on with a go at the RYA without even checking whether the people who have offended your sensibilities have even taken a course for an RYA qualification - given that even for UK people it is not a requirement to charter a boat. Normally only an INTERNATIONAL certificate of competence is required - which also does not require competence in mooring against Greek town quays, either bow first or stern first.

As others have said, it is not easy, even for experienced people with today's big, high sided charter boats in crowded situations, often with crosswinds. Remember these folks maybe do it 10 times a year - so give them a bit of slack. This "problem" if indeed it is a problem is nothing new, neither is the similar problem of hire boats cocking up going into locks in the French canals, or even the British canals.

It is 25 years since I first boated in the eastern Med and there were even then people sitting on the sidelines moaning about the supposed incompetence of people who were just out to give their family a decent holiday and finding this particular part of it very stressful. However with goodwill and a bit of tolerance we should all manage to rub along together - and as I suggested I doubt even the most expert of us is immune from the odd cock up.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Firstly I asked a question, then gave a reason for asking.The fact the answer was given that it's not part of the course was enough .Know it alls suggested other motivation for asking.

Then again how difficult is it to see a 9 metre gap on a quay and line yourself up , instead these competent persons in charge of powerful expensive yachts come in at an angle dropping their anchor over two other boat , sometimes more and reverse into the midships of the innocent owner sitting in their equally expensive boat parked on the quay ,then panic and put their own keel and propeller over the boat on the inside of them , this is a daily event and is quite entertaining if not involved.

Is it arogance that people charter £200,000 yachts without proper skills to handle them.
There's one large Charter boat company that actually likes their boats damaged as they do their own repairs at a vast profit from their insurance co.

 

[Stemar]

If charter companies required more than a minimum of skill, they'd do a lot less business.

Then there's the med mooring; I've sailed my own boat around the Channel for 18 years and never done it. If fact, the thought of doing it with Jissel gives me the shivers because going astern was a matter of letting her do what she felt like doing today (not necessarily the same as yesterday), and pretending I meant it. If I had to do a med moor, have a camera ready, because Bone Headed Boaters of the Week will most likely have a new entry...

 

[Praxinoscope]

Yacht handling is or was certainly part of the practical RYA Yachtmaster exam, I remember having to both moor and leave a mooring under sail during my practical 40 years ago, but no it didn't include the 'Med Stern Mooring' activity, in fact I don't think at the time I had even heard of it.

 

[Skylark]

Not at the RYA, possible the many schools that may feel obligated to give a ticket after spending so much money on courses.

Most schools employ their instructors as freelance. One of the primary aims of an instructor is to uphold the required standards. There is no obligation for an instructor to recommend to the Chief Instructor to issue a course completion certificate. If it become apparent that a candidate is struggling, there is an obligation upon the instructor to communicate and to give the candidate every opportunity to improve.

I joined the ranks of sailing instruction in my retirement from a real job. With regard to cock-ups, I always tell my students that other sailors will not be judgmental. Most of us at one time or another have most likely done something similar. From your OP, it seems as though I was wrong

 

[Refueler]

Stern to mooring .... a result of high stems and sugar scoop transoms ..... easier for the 'girls' to get on / off.

Lucky for me - Baltic still sticks with the Bow to version ... My boat has serious transverse thrust from its big prop. To go astern with my boat is a real fight to stop it veering of. You can blip thottle ... you can leave it tickover ... you can give big quick bursts ... result is similar whatever ...
In fact it was an interesting exercise ... I would let people who sailed on her have a go .. leaving them to their own ideas / attempts. End result is always stern to port ....

 

[Refueler]

Most schools employ their instructors as freelance. One of the primary aims of an instructor is to uphold the required standards. There is no obligation for an instructor to recommend to the Chief Instructor to issue a course completion certificate. If it become apparent that a candidate is struggling, there is an obligation upon the instructor to communicate and to give the candidate every opportunity to improve.

I joined the ranks of sailing instruction in my retirement from a real job. With regard to cock-ups, I always tell my students that other sailors will not be judgmental. Most of us at one time or another have most likely done something similar. From your OP, it seems as though I was wrong

Having watched the school boats come in orderly and without incident to a certain Solent based marina .... then the Schools "Command" Beneteau follow them in ... the mammoth cock-up that Bene did trying to 180 turn between boats inside the marina ... makes you wonder about competency !!

Yes we have all cocked it up .... but that was such an awful display of total idiocy - that even the 'students' all stood and watched in disbelief.

 

[johnalison]

Having watched the school boats come in orderly and without incident to a certain Solent based marina .... then the Schools "Command" Beneteau follow them in ... the mammoth cock-up that Bene did trying to 180 turn between boats inside the marina ... makes you wonder about competency !!

Yes we have all cocked it up .... but that was such an awful display of total idiocy - that even the 'students' all stood and watched in disbelief.

One of my fondest memories is of watching a sailing school boat at Dartmouth in the sole charge of its owner and chief instructor ending up pinned by its backstay on the town walkway, having totally misjudged the tide, all in slow motion.

 

[Refueler]

One of my fondest memories is of watching a sailing school boat at Dartmouth in the sole charge of its owner and chief instructor ending up pinned by its backstay on the town walkway, having totally misjudged the tide, all in slow motion.

I know its not funny for the guy on board ... but love it !!

I bet he had all the excuses under the sun to explain it away ...

 

[Skylark]

Having watched the school boats come in orderly and without incident to a certain Solent based marina .... then the Schools "Command" Beneteau follow them in ... the mammoth cock-up that Bene did trying to 180 turn between boats inside the marina ... makes you wonder about competency !!

Yes we have all cocked it up .... but that was such an awful display of total idiocy - that even the 'students' all stood and watched in disbelief.

What's a schools command beneteau?

 

[jordanbasset]

What's a schools command beneteau?

Is it the owned by Gavin Williamson

 

[BobnLesley]

...so many minor crashes in Poros with boats attempting to med moor...

I think you have to have a certificate of competent as a min requirement for chartering.
If reversing into a berth dropping a anchor is beyond them, can they be competent?

Late July, so you're in the silly season in the Greek Islands and as noted by someone earlier, Poros is not the easiest of quays to get onto. I'm sure there are some barely competent charterers there at the moment, though a higher proportion of them are more likely decent sailors, who've never (or not often/not for a long while) been obliged to Med-moor; my recollections are that it was a manoeuvre that got easier and at which I got better, with regular practice.

One presumes from the tone of your comments that you however were completely au-fait with the nuances of Med-mooring before you ever got to the eastern-Med and highly skilled at the manoeuvre from the outset; in which case it might then be constructive for you to pass on exactly how/where you gained that experience in advance?

 

[Refueler]

What's a schools command beneteau?

I did not know what else to term the Bendytoy .... its the boat that lays and picks up the buoys for the school race events ... has the key official on, not with students etc. The students were all on the Jeanneaus ... the School Official on the Bendytoy.

 

[Davy_S]

I regularly sat at Marabou bar in Agia Efimia, it has a perfect view of the yachts attempting to reverse towards the quayside, it was very entertaining! but as anyone who has moored here knows, in the late afternoon a Katabatic wind blows from the West, this blows directly onto the beam of the reversing yachts, it is always around F6, so a novice Med charterer is faced with a crowded quayside, he has just about room to get into a gap if he squeezes the fenders tight, has to judge when to drop the hook and hope it holds, and then attempt to reverse with the wind blowing him East, into other yachts, it can be very challenging at the best of times, especially with everyone watching and ready to shout advice, it is a skill that can only be mastered with practice, most can get it wrong.

 

[Skylark]

I did not know what else to term the Bendytoy .... its the boat that lays and picks up the buoys for the school race events ... has the key official on, not with students etc. The students were all on the Jeanneaus ... the School Official on the Bendytoy.

Now I understand. It’s called the “committee boat”. The Race Officer (an RYA appointment) will be aboard.

If it’s the fleet I’m thinking of it would not have been a Schools event, rather a Corporate event.

Was it recently? The Beneteau’s have now all gone and the new fleet comprises Jeanneau SO 410.

The Beneteau F40 is a very manoeuvrable boat and could fairly easily turn within its own length. The new boats, with twin rudder, no so easy.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

If charter companies required more than a minimum of skill, they'd do a lot less business.

Then there's the med mooring; I've sailed my own boat around the Channel for 18 years and never done it. If fact, the thought of doing it with Jissel gives me the shivers because going astern was a matter of letting her do what she felt like doing today (not necessarily the same as yesterday), and pretending I meant it. If I had to do a med moor, have a camera ready, because Bone Headed Boaters of the Week will most likely have a new entry...

I am talking about modern yachts with bow thrusters .

 

[Clancy Moped]

My baptism of fire was in Aegina, I made sure we got in mid-morning less traffic, I put far to much chain out, nerve raking experience....

 

[westernman]

I did my coastal kipper course at a RYA school in Greece. Med (stern to) mooring with anchor to town quays was part of the training. And very stressful and difficult to really master. I think we were told it was not part of the RYA syllabus, but we would need to learn it for chartering in Greece. AFAIK the RYA syllabus only covers parking alongside a quay and anchoring out.

In my own boat in Spain and France we park stern to (because otherwise with the bow sprit we would be miles from the quay or alternatively we would be stopping passing traffic) and all the locations in Spain and France we have visited have lazy lines.

The vast majority of boats are parked stern to. There is the odd AWB parked bows to.

 

[Tranona]

I am talking about modern yachts with bow thrusters .

Even with bow thrusters it still requires experience. You are now playing with an extra tool that has a different effect on a boat, and believe me for an inexperienced person (probably with an even more inexperienced crew 12m away) not used to the size and windage of the boat juggling dropping anchor and letting out the chain, boat speed, aiming a wide stern at a narrow slot and using the thruster to keep the bow in line is a real challenge. Add a few knots of gusty crosswind and a time span of 60-90 seconds and not surprising it sometimes goes wrong.

 

[Refueler]

Now I understand. It’s called the “committee boat”. The Race Officer (an RYA appointment) will be aboard.

If it’s the fleet I’m thinking of it would not have been a Schools event, rather a Corporate event.

Was it recently? The Beneteau’s have now all gone and the new fleet comprises Jeanneau SO 410.

The Beneteau F40 is a very manoeuvrable boat and could fairly easily turn within its own length. The new boats, with twin rudder, no so easy.

This was back about 2005 ish ...

The Bendytoy came in last after the Jeanneaus and was proceeding nicely centre of water between the outer breakwater pontoon line where I was and the inner pontoons. Instead ot doing his 180 at the end he was heading to (bigger area) - he decided to execute it when between a nice boat ahead of me and the inner pontoon. He had barely more than his boats length ...
His bow touched and ran along the really nice boat ahead of me in the turn ... narrowly missing my boat.
Midships - there was a young lass holding a line - completely out of it ... and I could not resist but call out : "Are you cosmetic addition to all this ?" ... to which laughter then came from all the boats around ..
The Bendytoy Skipper ignored everyones calls and doggedly carried on ...

I was surprised when the owners of the boat he touched didn't make issue of it. They had a pristine boat that now had a scuff mark along her. The School Skipper made no effort at all to come and apologise or talk to the owner.

I agree - it must have been a Corporate ... the girl who took our berthing fee asked if we really wanted to stay as there was a Marquee and Party organised for that evening ... unfotunately we'd missed the tide for Newport so stayed.