Is this normal??? Brokers and engines

[Leadbelly]

We're thinking of getting something a little bigger than our current 26ft mystere flyer and have been having a look round a few boats.

Today's boat was a very promising almost ideal boat with a more than 30 year old engine. We saw it with a broker, who provided a brief video of an engine start in the advert

However there was a surprisingly firm no to seeing the engine run. They said that isn't something they do, and that they weren't insured for this.

The boat was in the water and reportedly in sail away condition.

It did suprise me a little, but on reflection all the boats we've seen have been with owners and all offered to start the engine without being asked ...

Is it normal for a broker not to demonstrate the engine?

 

[garymalmgren]

Is it normal for a broker not to demonstrate the engine?

No. That is NOT NORMAL.
Especially if the boat is in the water.

"they weren't insured for this. "
That is also quite a strange thing to say.

 

[Leadbelly]

No. That is NOT NORMAL.

That was my instinctive reaction too, quite a shame as she was pretty much perfect otherwise...

 

[Momac]

Interestingly I looked at a boat at the weekend. I just turned up with no prior appointment.
The marina owner/broker did not want to start the engine. I guess the engine could have been winterised (it is February) or at least had not been checked before starting . I think that's quite a reasonable precaution.
The boat was not for me but if I had been interested I am sure arrangements to run the engine could have been arranged.

 

[Keith 66]

Walk away. If he wont run it the likelyhood is its knackered.

 

[Martin_J]

I would not have expected a broker to have started the engine.

As MartynG said already, it could have been winterised, seacocks may be turned off or some other maintenance may have been in progress.

Not worth the risk for the broker... You should have just asked if it could be arranged.

Owner vs broker on board... Totally different situation.

 

[Tranona]

It is unusual but I suspect this is an individual decision perhaps based on past experience when something went wrong with running an engine. If the rest of the boat is what you want then make an offer specifically subject to seeing the engine start and run plus the normal survey (which would include starting an d running the engine). That will put him on a spot and maybe prompt him to be more reasonable.

 

[Leadbelly]

It's an interesting mix of responses, nothing is simple with a yacht...

You should have just asked if it could be arranged.

I did and the broker suggested it might be possible IF the owner agreed to come to the boat.

If the rest of the boat is what you want then make an offer specifically subject to seeing the engine start and run plus the normal survey

It's an affordable boat, hence the 30 year old engine! I was hoping to avoid the cost of survey, which including a lift would end up being more than 10% of the total cost.

A 2020 survey is available and they're sending me a copy, which covers most survey items but clear a lot can change with the engine in 3 years.

 

[38mess]

Just walk away.

 

[MisterBaxter]

I don't see any problem with just asking if you can meet the owner to see the engine run. If they say no, walk away. If they say yes, make sure you're seeing a genuine cold start and see what happens. If it starts and runs ok, the broker had a genuine reason for saying 'no' that wasn't about the engine not working.
Personally I can't imagine that any broker or owner would expect to get away with selling a boat with a non running engine without the buyer noticing, so I would be inclined to accept the broker's story. It might well be true that their insurance wouldn't cover damage to boat or engine caused by an engine start with the owner absent.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I don't see any problem with just asking if you can meet the owner to see the engine run. If they say no, walk away. If they say yes, make sure you're seeing a genuine cold start and see what happens. If it starts and runs ok, the broker had a genuine reason for saying 'no' that wasn't about the engine not working.
Personally I can't imagine that any broker or owner would expect to get away with selling a boat with a non running engine without the buyer noticing, so I would be inclined to accept the broker's story. It might well be true that their insurance wouldn't cover damage to boat or engine caused by an engine start with the owner absent.

This. The excuse is a bit weird, but they just didn’t want the liability. But it’s completely unreasonable to expect you to buy a boat without ascertaining it's condition. I have no problem in buying a boat without a survey, they’re usually full of arse covering gibberish anyway. But start her up, and engage forward and reverse gears. Make it a condition of purchase.

 

[Momac]

Clearly the engine should be seen running at least and preferably a test run before you buy.

But there are good reasons for the broker not to start the engine without prior consent from the owner or engine bay checks and things like the impeller checked before first start up after a long layup.

It does sound like the sailaway condition is just sales talk.
Did the broker really expect the OP to buy without the engine being run? I doubt it.

If the OP still wants the boat another visit for a sea trial under power should be arranged.

 

[burgundyben]

I do a bit of brokerage, in this case I would have called the owner while onboard and asked, is it ok to start? Any special instructions?

As it happens its motorboats I sell, most viewings of boats afloat we run the engines, its pre agreed with the seller and I'm insured to do it.

The broker might have lost the sale over it, I bend over backwards to get a sale over the line. Why would a broker take any other approach?

 

[Momac]

Why would a broker take any other approach?

Maybe the broker knows the engine has not been checked over ready to start ?
Maybe there is a fault that the broker did not wish to reveal?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I do a bit of brokerage, in this case I would have called the owner while onboard and asked, is it ok to start? Any special instructions?

As it happens its motorboats I sell, most viewings of boats afloat we run the engines, its pre agreed with the seller and I'm insured to do it.

The broker might have lost the sale over it, I bend over backwards to get a sale over the line. Why would a broker take any other approach?

My experience with brokers is that most are much like you, will help in any way they can. It’s not just that it’s your commission at risk either, it's about pleasing both parties. A flat ‘no’ is most odd.

 

[Mister E]

Does the Broker know where all the Seacocks and fuel taps are?
If not they could have problems.

 

[ChromeDome]

We're thinking of getting something a little bigger than our current 26ft mystere flyer and have been having a look round a few boats.

Today's boat was a very promising almost ideal boat with a more than 30 year old engine. We saw it with a broker, who provided a brief video of an engine start in the advert

However there was a surprisingly firm no to seeing the engine run. They said that isn't something they do, and that they weren't insured for this.

The boat was in the water and reportedly in sail away condition.

It did suprise me a little, but on reflection all the boats we've seen have been with owners and all offered to start the engine without being asked ...

Is it normal for a broker not to demonstrate the engine?

How would a sea trial happen then?

 

[Hermit]

Had a similar response from Ancasta - engine starting with the owner present only. Ended up doing it with the surveyor present and owner on the phone.

 

[bitbaltic]

Was this the kind of viewing where you spend 3 hours checking the boat and all its systems over in detail because you’re serious and want to make an offer, or the kind where you’re there for 20 minutes asking questions of a broker? Because in the former- even without running the engine- you can learn a fair bit about its condition, oil or coolant leaks, belt condition, elbow rust, exhaust system condition etc. if you didn’t have a good look around the engine the firm ‘no’ might just be because the broker spotted a pool of coolant you hadn’t. Forgive me if it’s otherwise and it’s perhaps worth confirming that you did visually inspect the condition and had no concerns yourself about starting it.

 

[oldgit]

On a first viewing , have in the past indicated that am seriously interested in a boat without being able to run engine(s) , ideally prefer a boat to initially be out of the water and visually access the hull and stern gear . Some sort of engine test can come later and broker normally will arrange this.
If buying directly from the owner and the boat is in the water would expect the seller to be able to open seacocks etc and know which switches to turn on etc and start engines without damage. Unless of course he has winterised the boat.
In the case of Broker, do not expect him to have an intimate knowledge of every last seacock and impeller condition on all of his listings.
Either a case of coming back later or in a recent case, broker ringing the seller and asking if the boat can be safely started, which was followed by a sea trial a few days later.
Experienced brokers can very accomodating , sometimes more so than private sellers, and will be flexible about the purchase procedure.
Viewed a boat and expressed a serious interest, boat afloat .
Everything sounded and looked OK .
Made an non negociable offer, subject only to a personal seatrial.
No immediate deposit or paperwork . If the boat sold prior, it sold, end of.
Sea trialed the following weekend, and offer confirmed on condition that some other minor details were sorted
Offer accepted a few days later.
Paperwork completed via email.
Money sent .
Boat collected the following week.
Could not have been more pleased with brokerage service and very prompt replies to various "What the hell is this flashing red light " queries afterwards. It was the bowthruster.

Reckon it takes about a year to find out how your new boat works, plus wether it likes you or not......and are you both going to get on !
It also takes about a year before you resolutely refuse to spend any more money on her. ?