Is it worth buying a log ?

[alec]

I have the chance to buy a very nice log for a nice price.

But are they worth having now that GPS is so reliable and cheap ?

Are they better than GPS for sail trimming ?

I had one some years ago which seemed to get fouled most of the time.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.


Regards,

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[Rick]

I find the log invaluable for sail trim for a number of reasons.
My GPS only reads to one decimal place, whereas the log is set to 2 places,.
Log has a trend indicator - just an up or down arrow, but at a glance I can see what's happened over the last 30 secs or so.
I can also "zero" the log at current speed, and then have + and - indications which is also very useful in light conditions.
The log has 40mm high digits that all the crew can easily see, whereas the speed on the GPS is only a minor indicator that is hard to read.
Lastly, the log allows us to use the GPS to find favourable or adverse current - GPS alone doesn't give us the same richness of information.
My 2 cents worth .....

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[William_H]

I agree with everything Rick says however I had a paddle wheel log for many years but finally got rid of it and filled the hole in the hull. They foul up. I got to the stage where I only fitted it in the hull when I went sailing with the attendant watery mess and removed it on return. Unless you can get one using two ultrasonic sounders using the doppler principale with no moving parts you are bound for dissapointment as you have already found. A GPS is cheaper and better. Having said this where I sail there is no significant tide and warm water which is a devil for growth of weed and crustacea. regards will

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[Rick]

Thanks Will - I'd much prefer a solid state one, but current is paddlewheel. One trick I did find was to treat the paddlewheel as follows:
1 thoroughly clean the paddlewheel assembly, and dry
2 spray assembly with anhydrous lanolin
3 allow to dry
4 repeat steps 2 and 3 several times. It'll end up looking an unholy mess!
Last time, I gave it 6 coats over two days - paddlewheel (which used to foul regularly and needed cleaning eveyweek) has been in place untouched for over three months ...

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[joe17]

I think I asked a similar question a few months ago when considering buying a boat which didnt have a log.

In the end I bought a boat with a log. It is just a basic analog speed display and a digital distance counter. None of the fancy sail trim things mentioned above. I use it along with my GPS.

My conclusions after using it for a few months is that the log is much better for sail trim than the GPS. Mainly because the large, analog, display has a wider scale and is easier for my to see the relative changes than watching a series of ever changing numbers on the GPS.

I noticed my log consistently over reads compared to the GPS. I am sailing in the baltic, off Helsinki, so not much in the way of tides or currents and the log always seems to read half a knot more than the GPS reguardless of point of sail or direction.

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[pragmatist]

Have thru hull paddle wheel log. Wouldn't be without it - if only for the fun I get when HWMBO clears it and gets a nice jet of ice cold seawater in the face !

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK

 

[rjp]

At present we enjoy the use of GPS only courtesy of George W. Bush and the military machine, who can degrade, modify or switch it off at any time. I certainly wouldn't want to rely only on GPS as anything other than an aid to navigation, to be backed up and checked against any other technology I had available.

John

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[MASH]

RJP, sorry, I can't let you get away with that piece of disinformation. Disregarding your sour and unnecessarily personal comments re "George Bush" and the "military machine" - who do you suppose had the biggest interest in developing the transistor, integrated circuit, diesel engine (for WW1 subs) and just about every other marine invention since the astrolabe??? Not just the merchants, you can be sure! - Uncle Sam long, long ago made a commitment NOT to switch off the GPS system as it has become such an integrated part of the commercial world. Christ, he even removed the jitter to give you metre, instead of tens of metres accuracy! If he turned it off half the airliners in the world's skies would be lost and half the commercial truck deliveries would go astray, to say nothing of taxis, reps, surveying teams etec! Come on!

I'd be far more concerned about the risk of salt water on GPS circuitry, its a risk several orders of magnitude higher (like 10,000 times higher) than your rather fanciful example, and if your sextant relies on a calculator and your (digital?) stopwatch on (US Govt?) radio time signals then you are in pretty much the same boat, aren't you?

Sure, don't rely on it, most sailors use a backup system, but spare us the silly anti American angst - after all the bolshies (oops Russians) have a similar system (GLONASS) if you prefer to imagine a real oligarch's finger on the switch...(and I don't believe they've made any such commitment re the Off switch...)

Personally I'll stck to the proven reliable methods of GPS backed up by radio time signals (2 recievers) and a sextant, and two logs, one electronic military machine type, the other mechanical military machine type courtesy of Mssrs. Walker. Oh, and my own military machine derived navigational skills...What is the alternative? Tarot cards?

Bon Voyage!

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[jerryat]

Hi!

I 've used a paddlewheel log of one make or another for over thirty years. Sure they can foul up, but I've always used a tiny paintbrush to put at least two coats of anti-fouling on the rotator and it's housing. It is seldom that we need to clean it more than twice a year.

Otherwise agree we the comments of the other pro-loggers!

Good sailing!

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[Peppermint]

Re: Your back to how you sail

If your a Solent. or any other local area, potterer with many years experience you probably don't use charts or logs or anything really. If you sail longer distances your log is useful. Sure there inaccurate, though you get a feel for your own logs foibles, and you could use your GPS without concern for reliability, but if you like to keep your skills up to snuff you need a log.



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[Soong]

A log is essential.

The gps will tell you how much ground you have covered, but the log will tell you about the water that passed under you along the way.

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[Mirelle]

No, it\'s not.

The towed Walker type are quite accurate, but are only worth streaming on passages of over 24 hours/100 miles, and can wrap themselves lovingly round the prop, if forgotten, in a calm, and not handed.

The paddlewheel type are very inaccurate and furthermore can easily clog. They are good for showing changes in boat speed but the GPS does that anyway.

(Needless to say, I have both types!)

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[William_H]

RJP I have to agree with MASH and I am not American. If the world situation comes to the point of USA switcjing off GPS we have far more problems than loss of navigation.The aviation authorities here in OZ (and I am sure in all countries) have procedures and approvals in place to take an aircraft with paying passengers into a strip using GPS only no other nabv aids except compass and altimeter with visibility minimums around half a mile and 500 ft ie absolutely foul weather. That is what you call really relying on GPS. You have no worries with GPS providing you operate it correctly and salt water doesn't kill it. regards will

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[rjp]

You simplistically label my perspective anti-American. I can assure you I am anything but that as SWMBO would testify (she's American!). It's their president and his policies that worry me (it also worries about half America's voters, and they can't exactly be anti-American can they!) If GPS availability is guaranteed, why are the EU building a parallel system? As I said, it's an AID to navigation and like any other should not be relied upon entirely.

John

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[Birdseye]

"Why are the EC building a parallel system?" Do you think it might be something to do with French anti Americanism / national pride. Perhaps launched using French rockets? And mainly French satellites? But someone else's money - ours!

C'est magnifique!

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[Sunnyseeker]

Our experience is that GPS is not always reliable and when it fails.... so we always had a bck up, hull log and spare towed log.
Main fixed GPS started giving odd positions so we had two hand held waterproof Garmins, both the hand helds gave up due to moisture after 3-4 hours use in the cockpit, just heavy rain and sea spray.
Never rely on electronics as your only option.

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[oldharry]

Well! a nicer innocent question and we get all embroiled in politics! But good seamanship demands a belt and braces approach, and having a log sharpens up non GPS navigation very considerably.

But without entering into the George Bush debate, has no one else noticed that there is a 'GPS free' zone for up to a mile round American warships? Whether its something to do with their HF comms, or whether its some system for upsetting the guidance mechanism of inbound missiles, terorists etc security does not tell. The fact remains if you get anywhere near one, your GPS will be useless.

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[Gordonmc]

Purely as a matter of interest, GPS has now replaced atomic clocks (Rugby/Mannesman) as timing devices for radio and television multiplexers and transmitters.
Switch off GPS and no more Eastenders, Coronation Street and The Archers.

Well, I suppose we could dust off the sextants after all!


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[Evadne]

Re: No, it\'s not.

I would always have a log when navigating in tidal waters, but then I don't use a gps-reliant system of navigating. If you do, then back up gps sets make a better investment.

I am an advocate of the towed electronic log. They have all the advantages of a towed log - independent of the ship's batteries, easy to clear, non-fouling, no hole in the hull, etc., with the advantage of a speed and distance readout that is easily readable and a small, light impeller that is not a problem to deploy. The only hassle is remembering to deploy and recover at the end of a trip, but it only takes seconds. In 20 years I have never reversed over the impeller, touch wood, although with a long-keeler this would be difficult. I have an old Stowe log, which is no longer made but a google search will find the one or two that are still made.


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[Rick]

Thanks Oldharry,

Is the one mile zone for real? - I know the USAF were accused of disrupting GPS signals during tests at a joint military / GA airport in the states, but I was unaware they'd proceeded - it would make sense in these terrorist attack days I guess to protect their assets in this way - next time a USN 688 visits Brisbane, Aus (a nuclear free zone!) I'll take my Garmin down and check ....

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