Is it just me or are all modern boats completely horrible ?

[doug748]

Here is how you do high topsides and twee little hull windows without it barking like a dog:



A lot of modern boats sail like the contents of your ole granny's chamber pot because of excessive volume. But there we are, your ole Grandad knew that if a Gentleman wanted a more accommodation, he bought a longer boat.

.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Here is how you do high topsides and twee little hull windows without it barking like a dog:

View attachment 84150

A lot of modern boats sail like the contents of your ole granny's chamber pot because of excessive volume. But there we are, your ole Grandad knew that if a Gentleman wanted a more accommodation, he bought a longer boat.

.

Yebbut, lets make that dock fender round like it's meant to be...



And it's just another awb.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Fancy a C e n t a u r?

 

[doug748]

"And it's just another awb. "



But without the first sighting this century of the 1950's caravan dinette:






See Post 26.



.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

"And it's just another awb. "



But without the first sighting this century of the 1950's caravan dinette:


View attachment 84161



See Post 26.



.

I must admit that while I quite like the boat that's the feature that would have me saying no.

The cruising boat interior layout that I like most (from pictures) is that found in the larger Wauquiez Pilot range. It's one of very few where you can see out of proper big windows while sitting down.

 

[coopec]

Why do keel failures happen and what can we do to prevent it?

 

[Laminar Flow]

Why do keel failures happen and what can we do to prevent it?

Right up there with mast failures and equally as rare. I'm about a worried about it as the chance of the wheels falling off my car. A.

 

[BrendanS]

Why do keel failures happen and what can we do to prevent it?

Risk: Keel falls off while sailing
Risk mitigation factor: Don't go sailing

 

[coopec]

Risk: Keel falls off while sailing
Risk mitigation factor: Don't go sailing

Well mine is a traditional long keel yacht. Need I worry?

 

[BrendanS]

are you worried?

 

[Daydream believer]

Well mine is a traditional long keel yacht. Need I worry?

Possibly. When I rebuilt my second Stella I stripped it to a bare hull & was surprised how poorly the central timber ( forget the name) that held the keel was held to the timbers forming the hull. The joint between it & the first ones was actually open for several feet & the ribs just butted to it. the connection was actually made between the planking further round the hull at the ends where they met the central timber & transon.
I glassed the joint with a couple of layers of epoxy & 300grm matt .So although one does not hear of many keels falling off long keel boats, I suspect that there is potential for a lot of leaks in that area.
And as we all know, leaks can sink a boat as easily as if a keel falls off

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Oh, I do like a good scrap about old vs new ... so who's to blame then? Why aren't boats made like they used to be?

Is it because the designers and builders have abandoned seaworthiness and "a sea kindly motion"? Is it their fault? Do they think a handhold every 3 inches is now superfluous?

Or is it the fault of modern sailors who don't want to venture any further than the next marina? Who just sit in their cockpit surrounded by wheels and electronics sipping G&T from the fridge and never going anywhere? Have we all collectively lost the spirit of adventure that caused great men like Moitessier to venture round the world in a skip with sails?

Of course not. Design, understanding and material science has moved on - millions of man and computer hours have been accumulated since "traditional" hulls were splashed. There are more small boats crossing oceans now than ever before, yet the stories of boats falling apart mid-ocean are few and far between - boats falling to pieces was par for the course in the 60s and 70s - most of the fleet in the 1968 Sunday Times Golden Globe Race fell to pieces - could you imagine the horror if the current ARC had the same rate of attrition?

The popular Centaur needed its hull reinforcing to stop the keels flapping like a seals flippers, and even the beloved Contessa 32 had a problem with U-bolts on the cap shrouds which suffered from fractured nuts.

Long keels are simply a result of the materials used to build boats at the time - wood - where there was no other way to get the ballast lower than to effectively extend the hull underwater, and narrow it to reduce buoyancy and ensure the ballast stayed low - they are certianly not that way because designers thought they were more seaworthy and safer than a modern fin keel design - they simply didn't have the materials to build modern fin keeled designs back then.

During the transition to fiberglass, I remember the concern my fathers generation had with these confounded fiberglass boats being moulded in two halves and glued together, they were concerned about the hulls poppping open like a clamshell if they ever got too stressed or hit anything, and the difficulty in repairing them in out-of-the way places - wood on the other hand was everywhere, as were shipwrights who knew how to use it.

A quick look at the ARC fleets shows a huge percentage of AWBs - fat arsed, fin keeled marina queens with solar, fridges, freezers, water makers and a host of other home comforts - even TVs - they have no right to be plying the worlds oceans and their owners ought to be told that what they really need is a narrow, heavy, cramped long keeler that smells of mildew and diesel and needs the bilges pumping out every 6 hours.

I'm obviously being provocative in this post, but if Sir Francis Chichester were to have his time again, I doubt he would now choose Gipsy Moth IV, I rather think he'd be on one of these fat arsed, fugly racing machines wearing a grin like a cheshire cat ? ? ? ....

 

[Refueler]

Possibly. When I rebuilt my second Stella I stripped it to a bare hull & was surprised how poorly the central timber ( forget the name) that held the keel was held to the timbers forming the hull. The joint between it & the first ones was actually open for several feet & the ribs just butted to it. the connection was actually made between the planking further round the hull at the ends where they met the central timber & transon.
I glassed the joint with a couple of layers of epoxy & 300grm matt .So although one does not hear of many keels falling off long keel boats, I suspect that there is potential for a lot of leaks in that area.
And as we all know, leaks can sink a boat as easily as if a keel falls off

My Saaremaa Race Boat in Tallinn ... pine on oak ... After winter stand on the hard - you could see through the gaps into the boat ... they were long and wide - you could put fingers into the gap. When I bought the boat - I was horrified ... I'd grown up in and out of boat yards ... even did some 'casual labour in Kimbers ... but never seen such wide gaps before..... mm's yes but cm's ?
I considered remedies - but seller just kept saying ... I will launch her and I g'tee she's fine.

We got the crane and hung her in Pirita harbour ... she immediately filled with water and we put a pump in her ... 1 hour later the water was going down in the hull and crane was released ... 2 hrs later she was just dribbling water in ... 3 hrs later she was tight as a drum. I raced / sailed her for 2 years and sold as same - to the son of previous owner ! He continued racing her.

If I had 'added' to solve - she probably would have cracked planking trying to close back up ...





Fast and even though 'old' was still good enough to win races ... here photo'd from another boat a we stormed past...



When I sold her ... the keelson had rotted and we looked at stripping and replacing ... Andrey - the previous owners son wanted to do the job - as he said - he grew up with that boat ... so I sold it to him at half price and he did exactly what he said he would ... dropped the keel, replaced that keelson (with Elm instead of the original Oak ... difficult to get oak for such in Baltic and Elm was more than good enough) .. He even took hull back to the wood to varnish ... beautiful.







Apologies for thread drift .... but it shows a) I am not against fin keel ... b) in reply to DB's rotted wood ! ...

Just a quickie at end ... in Havant years ago - I was involved in restoration and wrote report for Insurance on a Dunkirk Little Ship .. it was an open inshore fishing boat - typical of the type at turn of century that used to roll up / down beaches along the coast. She was immaculate on completion .... engine was all gleaming and ready to go.

Couple of local 'louts' who yard owner had found in the yard and kicked out came back later and set fire to boats in the yard ... destroying all that hard work ... we had tears when we saw the results ... and the 'louts' we knew for sure did it ... got probation and a smack on the wrist.

 

[ryanroberts]

I'm obviously being provocative in this post, but if Sir Francis Chichester were to have his time again, I doubt he would now choose Gipsy Moth IV, I

A large part of his book seems to be him complaining about the boat, stowing an amazing amount of on board entertainment in the form of alcohol in the inventory and waking up hungover with her heeled over at a terrifying angle running 30 degrees in the wrong direction.
Have just put an offer in on a cosy and very pretty long keeler, but it's mostly my wallet that has an objection to very modern boats (0's bavish boats within my size and budget constraints seemed less suitable for various reasons and you can only really know what you actually need in a boat through experience so).

 

[Wansworth]

"And it's just another awb. "



But without the first sighting this century of the 1950's caravan dinette:


View attachment 84161



See Post 26.



.

No enough scatter cushions by a long chalk!

 

[doug748]

I must admit that while I quite like the boat that's the feature that would have me saying no.

The cruising boat interior layout that I like most (from pictures) is that found in the larger Wauquiez Pilot range. It's one of very few where you can see out of proper big windows while sitting down.

Indeed, and I still like a chart table.

I always thought these were good of their type:



Though you can't see out and sit at the same time.....they look well on the water.... although stretching it a bit would improve the looks

I think one of the things I like is that they are not pretending to be a racing boat.

.

 

[Graham376]

A quick look at the ARC fleets shows a huge percentage of AWBs - fat arsed, fin keeled marina queens with solar, fridges, freezers, water makers and a host of other home comforts - even TVs -

For many ARC boats such as you describe, it's a one way trip for well heeled owners, a nice downwind jolly with a safety net. What percentage continue to live aboard permanently going it alone, as opposed to those who pay to have them returned to Europe either by delivery crews or shipped?

Being realistic, the majority of folks who want to be long term cruisers are looking for used boats, costing a lot less. Most don't buy a fast flat bottomed high aspect fin and spade rudder, they go for a slower more traditional design with longer keel and skegged rudder. May surprise some people just how many old steel boats, many home built, are out there sailing more miles than many dream of.

 

[Refueler]

A large part of his book seems to be him complaining about the boat, stowing an amazing amount of on board entertainment in the form of alcohol in the inventory and waking up hungover with her heeled over at a terrifying angle running 30 degrees in the wrong direction.
Have just put an offer in on a cosy and very pretty long keeler, but it's mostly my wallet that has an objection to very modern boats (0's bavish boats within my size and budget constraints seemed less suitable for various reasons and you can only really know what you actually need in a boat through experience so).

My Father had a copy of Chichesters book and he always remarked that Chichester was one of the worst Navigators. (My Father was Senior Flight Ops CAA / DTi and part of his job was overseeing Navigation ... as an ex Flight Nav / Bomb Aimer from RAF .. I was trained as a Ships Navigator after school and I wish I could be half as good as my Father was ... he even navigated across Atlantic to and back - one of the B17's famous for Steve McQueens movie - War Lover ...





Sorry for thread drift .... )

I always felt Sir Alec Rose was a forgotten hero ....

 

[Refueler]

But without the first sighting this century of the 1950's caravan dinette:

I am going to be odd man out I think ... I quite like the dinette berth on small boats rather than a skinny sea berth ...

When I delivered that Match 35 ... I hated the berths in it and that aft berth felt so claustrophobic ...

 

[Graham376]

I am going to be odd man out I think ... I quite like the dinette berth on small boats rather than a skinny sea berth ...

We sail as a couple and the long settees with leecloths make excellent sea berths and within easy calling distance if the one on watch needs help. There is a quarter berth in the passageway but narrower and too close to the engine if we're motoring.