jcwads
Active member
Yes, but the oil for the engines and genny are a drop in the ocean, I use Shell Rimula and it does an excellent job and is inexpensive. No fluids for steering as its not hydraulic - another amazing advantage I have now.
IPS Ownership - My feedback
- Thread starter jcwads
- Start date
westernman
Well-known member
You are of course right. And if you do a reasonable number of hours per year, the fuel economy would potentially pay for that. It is also less than you are probably paying for a months berthing in summer and for insurance.
But it will forever hurt paying 1000 quid for an oil change each season.
Portofino
Well-known member
A contractor probably doesn’t want come back / liability as the finger pointing is hassle , and possible resultant sums are enormous.So follows that well trodden path to to VP and passes on the expense.
A DIY er needs to think about residuals .You are probably right thought it’s only boggo API GL5SAE 75w 90 synthetic. So any Halfords eq ( they do sell it btw ) will do .
I have used Halfords gear oil same spec the 75/90 in my Ferrari and classic trial bikes .Trial bikes changed every 3 rd trial ( mud / water ingress issues ? ) ….there are brand specific packaging btw at X times the € .
Plus loadsa forums with no one reporting anything going “ BANG “ using a proprietary gear oil as long as it’s the same spec ,
The tiny pool of DIY er IPS owners isn’t large enough within the far greater contractor users for any social media traffic .
Plenty of IPS out there but majority pay a contractor who isn’t gonna tell if he deviates from VP “liquid gold “anyhow .
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Portofino
Well-known member
I don’t get the lack of hydraulic steering oil as “ another amazing advantage “ it’s peanuts in the gen fluids equation .
Bit like forgive me using a car analogy mentioning washer fluid usage when comparing cars ….who wonders that ?
@
Yea but the “18 knots “ and lift out decimates any perceived/ real fuel savings .
Or diver fees before a trip .
At the OP have you considered buying a mini dive kit ? Cleaning up the props yourself .
Irrc they are made of a funny metal that’s not good with proprietary prop AF technique …..not that normal props fair any better in Antibes mind .
Momac
Well-known member
That is a lot of oil which means a drop of water ingress would be far less significant than the same drop of water in a sterndrive which takes 2.7 Litres in my case.
But does the oil really have to be changed annually and can't any fully synthetic gear oil of the correct grade be used ? A 20 L tub of FS gear oil can be purchased for about £90.
Plus I see the IPS has an oil filter which is not a huge expense at £15 so can't that be removed and inspected for any mayonnaise and if looking good a new filter fitted every other year ?
Obviously that's not according the Volvo Penta recommendations.
oldgit
Well-known member
IPS Draft.
looks to be no more than a similar shaft drive boat.
looks to be no more than a similar shaft drive boat.
oldgit
Well-known member
Agree on £500.000............. however it is now possible to buy IPS on a sub £150.000 boat.
Agree with everthing regards IPS handling characteristics.
- "I can understand the theory that those new to boating and who get an IPS boat could not skill up enough. If you learn off the joystick then it could land you in trouble. I find that the joystick is fine in benign conditions, but as soon as you have a bit of a gust, its not great for berthing, and if it kicks up a wind, its definitely not good. You have the option of high mode, but if you are wanting to get into a gap, its going to be kicking up water and rocking the boat."
Dealers do not keep stocks of an IPS complete propshaft replacement kit in stock for no reason at all.
This of course is nothing to do with a reluctance of owners to pay for the proper servicing on these units.
Chatting to a service engineer from well known VP main dealer, popping in couple of new seals and kicking the can down the road is very popular.
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MarcN
New member
@jcwads
Thanks a lot for this orientation. That is especially helpful for me as I´m in the market for a ~50ft sportscruiser as a first own boat for next season (after 20 years of yearly charter). Med spec, 2 cabins, 2 en suite bathrooms, tender garage and an occasional berth in the saloon would be important to me, boat should be going to croatia. I have a sweet spot for the Princess V48, but I wouldn´t dismiss a Sunseeker San Remo or your Fairline 48 open, admittedly as they frequently list for significantly less money than the Princess (2013-2016 builds). However, all of them are IPS 600 powered and as you mentioned the fouling issue I´m now a little bit concerned that these are a bit underpowered. As an alternative I´m looking for an older boat (e.g. decent Fairline 47) and do a refit like setag in order to bring it to "modern" standards (technically and optics).
How is your experience this season with the velox? Don´t get me wrong, I´m not into top speed, mid 20s cruising speeds would suit my needs perfectly. To have a mid season lift out in order to achieve that would be a no go for me.
Unfortunately I cannot PM you, most likely because I´m just registered at this forum. I´ve seen Vesper being on sale and I would love to get in contact with you. Being german citizen and berthing the boat in croatia I would be most likely not a potential customer due to the VAT issue, but I would appreciate any experience made on that model.
Best regards from Munich,
Marc
Thanks a lot for this orientation. That is especially helpful for me as I´m in the market for a ~50ft sportscruiser as a first own boat for next season (after 20 years of yearly charter). Med spec, 2 cabins, 2 en suite bathrooms, tender garage and an occasional berth in the saloon would be important to me, boat should be going to croatia. I have a sweet spot for the Princess V48, but I wouldn´t dismiss a Sunseeker San Remo or your Fairline 48 open, admittedly as they frequently list for significantly less money than the Princess (2013-2016 builds). However, all of them are IPS 600 powered and as you mentioned the fouling issue I´m now a little bit concerned that these are a bit underpowered. As an alternative I´m looking for an older boat (e.g. decent Fairline 47) and do a refit like setag in order to bring it to "modern" standards (technically and optics).
How is your experience this season with the velox? Don´t get me wrong, I´m not into top speed, mid 20s cruising speeds would suit my needs perfectly. To have a mid season lift out in order to achieve that would be a no go for me.
Unfortunately I cannot PM you, most likely because I´m just registered at this forum. I´ve seen Vesper being on sale and I would love to get in contact with you. Being german citizen and berthing the boat in croatia I would be most likely not a potential customer due to the VAT issue, but I would appreciate any experience made on that model.
Best regards from Munich,
Marc
jcwads
Active member
Velox has been a complete success. No performance issues at all, up on the plane with no problems. It solved my issues and would recommend. I’ve been to Tunisia and back this season with no performance issues. Cruising at 23 knots very happily. More if you want to waste fuel.
prinex
Active member
If you are in for a bit of work this one NEPTUNUS 56 - Adriatic Mega Yachts is for sale in Croatia (it may be a bit bigger than what you want). 815HP Cats.
Backstory: It was offered to me for 200.000 6 months ago. I wanted to buy it but I was too late. Then 2 months ago I was contacted again (I already purchased the Azimut by that that time) - the deal did not went thru because the boat needed VAT paid, EU Certification papers etc and the first purchaser did not wanted to wait too long. There a a few US-Owned boats in Croatia, mostly from people that escaped during the war and settled in the US. They buy VAT-Free boats in Croatia and use them 1 month a year as holiday home, then dry dock. So they usually are very lightly used.
At 200K would have been a steal IMO (better than the Azimut 55 but maybe more diffcult to resell one day). The Azimut was also some years younger (but way more expensive).
Backstory: It was offered to me for 200.000 6 months ago. I wanted to buy it but I was too late. Then 2 months ago I was contacted again (I already purchased the Azimut by that that time) - the deal did not went thru because the boat needed VAT paid, EU Certification papers etc and the first purchaser did not wanted to wait too long. There a a few US-Owned boats in Croatia, mostly from people that escaped during the war and settled in the US. They buy VAT-Free boats in Croatia and use them 1 month a year as holiday home, then dry dock. So they usually are very lightly used.
At 200K would have been a steal IMO (better than the Azimut 55 but maybe more diffcult to resell one day). The Azimut was also some years younger (but way more expensive).
ari
Well-known member
Important to remember that the perceived efficiency/fuel economy benefits are calculated using a completely clean hull and drives, and as the OP attests in his first post, a bit of fouling and that efficiency goes right out of the window.
Fouling does drastically effect the performance of the boat.
I know that fouling affects all boats with all drive systems, but it does appear to disproportionately affect IPS boats - even a little slime on the props makes a big difference.
I suspect it would be interesting indeed to compare two otherwise identical boats, one with IPS and one with shafts, measure the fuel efficiency advantage of IPS when box fresh into the water, and then measure it again after even a month afloat. My suspicion is that any advantage would not only be lost, but that the IPS boat may well be less fuel efficient.
It's just a theory, but it's one based on experience.
MarcN
New member
@jcwads thanks a lot for your feedback to velox, that sounds really promising. Also any further experience on the Targa 48 model would be much appreciated.
@prinex thanks for the hint, it looks good value for money indeed. But it is a very different style of boat, we are looking for a sportscruiser type rather than flybridge.
@prinex thanks for the hint, it looks good value for money indeed. But it is a very different style of boat, we are looking for a sportscruiser type rather than flybridge.
ph321
New member
My opinion on the issue with the IPS drives suffering so much with fouling is that many manufacturers put the small IPS600s into boats that are really too big for them. As soon as there's any fouling, they're struggling to perform as the owner expects. My comparison based on two recent trips I've done here in Australia, Sydney to Whitsundays being about 1,000nm:
Riviera 47 with Cummins QSM11 660hp on straight shafts weighing about 20ton dry. Used 9,509 Litres
Riviera 5400 with D11 725hp IPS950s weighing about 25 ton dry. Used 8,208 Litres.
The larger boat with approx. 25% more weight used considerably less fuel. It'll be interesting to see if the fuel usage changes much when I do the return trip in November. The 5400 performs well with the IPS950s, I averaged about 26knots for the trip whereas the 47 was happier at 20-22 knots.
Paul.
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antony s
New member
We have a 2017 v48 open and have found fouling not to be a big issue . Our boat is heavy as it has a big tender in the garage , seakeeper and upgraded gen set and it easily cruises at 26knt all throughout the season with IPs 600
marcochi76
Active member
Following with interest
Portofino
Well-known member
Another variable with anecdotal reports is the the fact that the local fouling differs coast to coast .
For example where the OP s based the Cote d Azur fouling pretty bad .I know from experience berthing there .
You have to be on top of your game and the proprietary products instructions followed to the letter .
Any shortcuts and they slough off / last 1/2 season etc .
Move 80 miles E into Liguria and the problem seemingly disappears , the fouling is lighter to the point you hardly have to a scrub the stern gear , any snake oil prop antifoul works .If you scrub them the accretions come off easier .
Or simply a good 1 hr run at 1800 rpm and props kinda self cleans . You see the engine load % drop as the knots increase .
Never got that with the accretions in the CdA .
Would have thought the D6 s haven’t got the torque spinning large IPs wheels to spin the crap off the props ….well not in the CdA ? Dif getting up on the plane ?
For example where the OP s based the Cote d Azur fouling pretty bad .I know from experience berthing there .
You have to be on top of your game and the proprietary products instructions followed to the letter .
Any shortcuts and they slough off / last 1/2 season etc .
Move 80 miles E into Liguria and the problem seemingly disappears , the fouling is lighter to the point you hardly have to a scrub the stern gear , any snake oil prop antifoul works .If you scrub them the accretions come off easier .
Or simply a good 1 hr run at 1800 rpm and props kinda self cleans . You see the engine load % drop as the knots increase .
Never got that with the accretions in the CdA .
Would have thought the D6 s haven’t got the torque spinning large IPs wheels to spin the crap off the props ….well not in the CdA ? Dif getting up on the plane ?
