IPS Drives

[piratos]

I am not up for a fight - and I very seldom take part in discussions here.

When I started my boating carreer more then 5 decades ago it was with outbords, then sterndrives and thereafter inbord with prop shafts.

Outbords are fine, so are sterndrives - but there are limitations like maintenance. Usual and proper service require the sterndrive to come off regularly which means the boat needs a lift. Service of the inbord with shafts can be done in water -and no extra cost for the service of the sterndrive. You Med guys dont domany hours - - but my sterndrive boats needed a lift mid summer for normal maintenance like gearoil change. Nothing serious - just a hassle and cost.

I am in the market for a new (second hand) boat within next year or so - under no circumstances would I buy a boat with IPS.

For a new boat with IPS you pay extra for all the gimmics, but when the boat gets older you must face the problem that they become difficult to sell, and you lose the extra money spent twice. Cost of maintenance is and will be more and more expensive the older the boat get, and it will be known in the market.

Who buys second hand is looking for a bargain, and not additional cost.

Have a nice day

 

[Switch]

Your opinion of course but I've never heard that IPS boats are difficult to sell (maybe in your region they are) - many are bought second hand. Like any boat, a good service history is very important. I ran a sterndrive boat for 10 years and an IPS boat for 3 years. The basic service costs are comparable for both types. When boats (any boats) get older they need more maintenance - that's a fact but you can mitigate this with regular servicing and maintenance. I'd rather buy a IPS boat with a good service history than another type (particularly sterndrive) with out.

 

[marcochi76]

if you should chose between 2 used boats, both with good service history, one with IPS and the other with Sterndrives, what would you choose?
all other things being equivalent
in other words, what is "less worst" ?

 

[ShaneAtSea]

Your opinion of course but I've never heard that IPS boats are difficult to sell (maybe in your region they are) - many are bought second hand. Like any boat, a good service history is very important. I ran a sterndrive boat for 10 years and an IPS boat for 3 years. The basic service costs are comparable for both types. When boats (any boats) get older they need more maintenance - that's a fact but you can mitigate this with regular servicing and maintenance. I'd rather buy a IPS boat with a good service history than another type (particularly sterndrive) with out.

Do you know if 'Line-Cutters' are any good on IPS propellers?

 

[Bouba]

if you should chose between 2 used boats, both with good service history, one with IPS and the other with Sterndrives, what would you choose?
all other things being equivalent
in other words, what is "less worst" ?

I would choose the boat I could get the most utility from. And that would be IPS. The maneuverability is the bonus, difficult marinas, bad weather, virtual anchor, easier for the wife to take the controls while I handle the lines.
Stern drives are just work and expense without any of the upsides that pods have.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I already wondered in other occasions, but never got any explanations: what sort of maths are those captains basing their reasoning on?

Your maths sound fine. But possibly the boats are different in something. I had some maths being poured to me by a few captains, and sometimes different boats are different boats.
One of the most consistent maths was from CaptJ of YF who for two Sunseeker Predator 62 which he managed; one was 1300hp Man and one with IPS I think the 1200, Volvo 900hp.
I think if I remember well his number to overcome the extra costs of IPS servicing from the fuel was about 40 hours in this case.

 

[Switch]

if you should chose between 2 used boats, both with good service history, one with IPS and the other with Sterndrives, what would you choose?
all other things being equivalent
in other words, what is "less worst" ?

Great question. If both had a good service history I'd be happy with both. It would come down to non-engine/drive

Do you know if 'Line-Cutters' are any good on IPS propellers?

I don't think you can fit them but don't know for sure.

 

[Bouba]

Economics are simple. If you want extra features then it will cost extra money. Either the purchase price or the servicing or both. IPS gives you something extra, ease of maneuvering. So you pay for it, just like any other option

 

[Switch]

Sorry didn't finish my point..

Great question. If both had a good service history I'd be happy with both. It would then come down to non-engine/drive issues like specification and equipment levels etc . That said, IPS is a great piece of kit, so maybe that would sway it for me everything else being equal.

 

[ShaneAtSea]

I don't think you can fit them but don't know for sure.

Yeah they do 'Line-Cutters- for IPS drives

1 - Propeller cone
2 - Hex socket screw
3 - Propeller nut, front
4 - Felt washer
5 - Line cutter
6 - Propeller nut, rear
7 - Flow deflector

 

[oldgit]

£250 each and you will need 4 ?
Bit curious, are there any single engine IPS installations. if not. why ?

 

[ShaneAtSea]

£250 each and you will need 4 ?
Bit curious, are there any single engine IPS installations. if not. why ?

£1000 to give my IPS drives a little bit of extra protection? Thats not really that expensive.

Im not sure why they dont have single engine IPS boats. Maybe because having two engines that move independently is what gives them their maneuverability

If you want a single engine then surely shaft drive is better anyway

 

[Elessar]

£1000 to give my IPS drives a little bit of extra protection? Thats not really that expensive.

Im not sure why they dont have single engine IPS boats. Maybe because having two engines that move independently is what gives them their maneuverability

If you want a single engine then surely shaft drive is better anyway

single IPS would be way easier to handle than single shaft. I haven't seen one though you're right. IPS single and a bowthruster would work well.

 

[GravyStain]

Maybe the question here should be rephrased...

Would I buy a new boat witrh IPS? Quite possibly.

Would I buy a 2009 boat with IPs or Shafts? Shafts all the way.

As stuff gets older, the simpler it is and the easier (read less costly in lost holidays and money) it is to deal with.

So, for my budget , It wold be shafts...

 

[Whippersnapper]

Yes but that is a semi displacement hull. A planing hull won’t have a keel like that. The best you’ll get is if the props are in tunnels designed to reduce the shaft angle. I am no fan of IPS but you don’t hear of this issue (props facing forward unprotected) being a real concern in practice.

This Swift Trawler 44 has a bit of a keel which would provide some protection:-

View attachment 111412

But obviously not as much as this (a Nordhavn something):-

View attachment 111409

With that you could probably get something nicely hooked on the stabilizers.

hus u

 

[Portofino]

Maybe the question here should be rephrased...

Would I buy a new boat witrh IPS? Quite possibly.

Would I buy a 2009 boat with IPs or Shafts? Shafts all the way.

As stuff gets older, the simpler it is and the easier (read less costly in lost holidays and money) it is to deal with.

So, for my budget , It wold be shafts...

Guess it boils down your attitude to risk management.
Narrowing down the risks depends on knowledge , experience , understanding the engineering and above all experience .
We are not clones .
Different folks will end up with different results .Just trying to explain who ends up buying them , as they do sell .

One of the 5 “ friends “ on my pontoon ( the SoF IPS doom + gloom pontoon ) ceased using the joy stick to berth because he figured out all the clunking , fwd , reverse and additional hydraulic rotations would potentially wear something and = a bigger bill sooner than if he did not use the joystick.

Another had a rev limit cruising iirc 3200 rpm ( D6s ) because over that it alarmed off and disabled his joystick , he needed his joy stick to berth .This was an intermittent fault covered under warranty .They never got to the bottom of it despite loadsa inconvenience.The VP guys only worked office hrs so by the time they arrived fiddled , replaced stuff - they basically throw parts ,at it , the stinking blazing hot Med many a holiday day was wasted in port .

This meant when went out to cruise in company , his idea btw we had to go agonisingly slow circa 22 knots .
My boats not really cut out , optimised hull wise at this speed , 24 it lifts up sufficiently 22 it’s when a bit wavey semi planing .
We did try 24 knots but his alarm went off .At theses 22 knots low speeds iam pissing round at 1400 / 1500 rpm you know that turbo cut in / cut out speed .

Then another guy the 3 rd , big shot character with his £700k + IPS 48 ftr wanted to go to St Tropez .About 1/2 hr in at 26/27 knots ( about 1750 rpm for me ) he radioed asking to “ cut the revs “ as he was getting a gearbox overheat alarm , so we cut the speed to 22 knots and abandoned project ....anchored up a Agay for the day .
Him + wife worrying about the trip home .Fortunately it behaved itself and the engineers were called the following day .New boat with 50 hrs .

Our shafty , I bought with 420 hrs has been 5 seasons turn key , point and squirt to 960 hrs .

Analogy is wholly electric battery only cars = range anxiety, with IPS it’s big bills reliability anxiety .Owners must always wonder ?? Is it gonna work stress free today ?

 

[Switch]

One of the 5 “ friends “ on my pontoon ( the SoF IPS doom + gloom pontoon ) ceased using the joy stick to berth because he figured out all the clunking , fwd , reverse and additional hydraulic rotations would potentially wear something and = a bigger bill sooner than if he did not use the joystick.

Sounds like your friend isn't very good at using the joystick - gentle inputs are all that is required and the correct power setting. If you know what you're doing you don't need to use the joystick that much - IPS can be driven like a sterndrive boat with steering and gears.

Another had a rev limit cruising iirc 3200 rpm ( D6s ) because over that it alarmed off and disabled his joystick , he needed his joy stick to berth .This was an intermittent fault covered under warranty .They never got to the bottom of it despite loadsa inconvenience.The VP guys only worked office hrs so by the time they arrived fiddled , replaced stuff - they basically throw parts ,at it , the stinking blazing hot Med many a holiday day was wasted in port .

Sounds more like your local VP guys don't know what they're doing...

Our shafty , I bought with 420 hrs has been 5 seasons turn key , point and squirt to 960 hrs .

My IPS boat has 1150 hours with no major issues!!

Your Doom and Gloom pontoon do seem to have more than their fair share of problems but they are the exception rather than the norm I would say. Interesting feedback all the same.

 

[MapisM]

If you know what you're doing you don't need to use the joystick that much

Sounds like a great reason for not wanting an IPS boat at all.
But only if you know what you're doing, of course! ?

 

[MapisM]

Yeah they do 'Line-Cutters- for IPS drives

Good pointer, I'll pass it to a boating mate.
He had to lift the boat twice in the last season alone, after grabbing lines which required some shaft seal replacements.
If there's one thing IPS is remarkably good at, it's as a floating lines magnet!

 

[oldgit]

Personally think that IPS is at its best in particular boating areas, especially where mooring in marinas is the order of the day and usually deep water within 10 mins of the moorings.
After that a fast/ WOT cruise to your destination port or favorite bay, from observation, seems to be the norm, the fun simply being to blast along.
Suspect that those skippers specifying IPS for propulsion in the class/age of boat normally fitted with IPS will not be worrying overly about fuel consumption or the cost of repairs after warranty has expired.
If IPS gives any skipper the confidence to use his boat then whats not to like. My chum took to it like duck to water.
Being a bit contentious, suspect the IPS boat is actually no more manoeuvrable , than a twin screw boat with a skilled skipper.
Any avantages of IPS are less , if , slow cruising speeds or operation in either shallow or non tidal rivers is the norm .
Having used the joystick system it did seem a lot of thrashing around was being done by the drives in order to do the same things that an old fashioned pair of props could achieve but in a somewhat less frantic fashion.

Rumours that IPS frees up interior space. ?
In a boat test of a Rodman 41, the boat tester proclaimed that the third cabin was only possible due to IPS.
Somebody should has told him , shaft version has exactly the same cabin layout.