IPS 400 would you buy a boat with it

[Seastoke]

so say 10 yrs old how reliable are they how much for service charge ,spares or should you go for shafts

 

[rubberduck]

so say 10 yrs old how reliable are they how much for service charge ,spares or should you go for shafts

Full Volvo service history with all fluids changed annually without fail, yes.

 

[kashurst]

Full Volvo service history with all fluids changed annually without fail, personally for me it's a no.

think outdrives x lots of electronics x only volvo specialist for repair = potential big bill.

 

[Portofino]

4 Q , s here's my answers

No

A lot by. A VP dealer -to get the stamp -or kill the residuals ??-that you were advised when purchasing -catch 22!

@ 10 y in -unreliable judging by the two on my pontoon one a neighbour.

Yup aim for shafts

 

[rafiki_]

Much worse prospect than outdrives, as they are fully immersed, all the time. Impossible to maintain without lifting the boat. Fully electronic, 10 years old now. Better prospects out there.

 

[[2068]]

The potential for big bills exists with all drive systems.

Shaft drive - the gearboxes can die in all kinds of interesting ways. Then you have the massive metal rods that need to be exactly straight, aligned perfectly, supported by stern glands that are trying to slowly sink your boat, and cutlass bearings that need replacing. And if you run aground in shallow water, there is a good chance that the P-bracket will be driven up into the hull and quite definitely sink the boat. Add on that every time you use the boat, you are paying out because of the increased fuel bills (your props are pointing in the wrong direction).

Outdrive - My drive system of choice, but only because I have no choice. Upside is efficiency and performance. Downside is the potential for trim system problems, hydraulic steering problems, shaft seal problems, tie bar problems, and the fact that the only thing stopping the boat from sinking is a rubber gaitor. At least running aground with outdrives is usually less of a disaster.

IPS - In theory this is a good thing. It's like Outdrive Reloaded for big boats, with more of the expensive stuff inside, rather than slowly dissolving in salt water. Docking should be much easier. But you are very reliant on the electronics, motors and actuators. Shaft seals can still fail. Parts are very expensive. You are reliant on VolvoMort for replacement props, which are also expensive. And the results from running aground have been mixed, to say the least.

 

[spannerman]

I would test drive the boat first as most of the IPS boats I've tried were not pleasant to manouver. Due to the design the legs stick out of the hull at an angle and when manouvering on full lock one prop axis is downwards and the other upwards, this made the boat rock from side to side with throttle inputs. I never liked it as it felt clumsy and uncontrolled. On the other hand I tried the Mercruiser Zeus equivalent system and mastered it in minutes as the legs are vertical so there is no variation the thrust vector when on full lock.
This is purely my own experience, others will think differently, but I'd strongly recommend trying before buying.

 

[rubberduck]

I use Volvo anyway, & expect to pay out the odd bill or two as its a boat. :ambivalence:
I am looking at boats with this system & a surveyor friend who is an ex long term Volvo employee can't recommend them highly enough.
Could it be those with the big bills try to cut corners & only see Volvo when it all goes wrong ?

 

[superheat6k]

A million boats have shafts, a similar have outdrives.

900,000 with shafts are on the water, 500,000 with outdrives are on the water.

IPS is I expect measured, I guess, at most 10,000 perhaps.

Yes it is technology moving on, but very very specific to the OE maker, who will also be improving the design making those greater than say 5 years more difficult to support, and this situation will not get any simpler. If they are not an attractive proposition at 10 years, they are going to be a complete no no by 15 years.

I personally will never have an outdrive propelled boat, and find the issues with shafts are easily outweighed by the massive disadvantages of outdrives, and the fuel costs savings only apply if you are doing considerable hours each year.

NB the figures above are flippant, but represent what will be seen on boats ashore at my yard on a typical day.

 

[Portofino]

The potential for big bills exists with all drive systems.

Shaft drive - the gearboxes can die in all kinds of interesting ways. Then you have the massive metal rods that need to be exactly straight, aligned perfectly, supported by stern glands that are trying to slowly sink your boat, and cutlass bearings that need replacing. And if you run aground in shallow water, there is a good chance that the P-bracket will be driven up into the hull and quite definitely sink the boat. Add on that every time you use the boat, you are paying out because of the increased fuel bills (your props are pointing in the wrong direction).

Outdrive - My drive system of choice, but only because I have no choice. Upside is efficiency and performance. Downside is the potential for trim system problems, hydraulic steering problems, shaft seal problems, tie bar problems, and the fact that the only thing stopping the boat from sinking is a rubber gaitor. At least running aground with outdrives is usually less of a disaster.

IPS - In theory this is a good thing. It's like Outdrive Reloaded for big boats, with more of the expensive stuff inside, rather than slowly dissolving in salt water. Docking should be much easier. But you are very reliant on the electronics, motors and actuators. Shaft seals can still fail. Parts are very expensive. You are reliant on VolvoMort for replacement props, which are also expensive. And the results from running aground have been mixed, to say the least.

There is a big rubber skirt ,think outdrive bellows x10 that needs replacing .
The time interval ---well is a Gray area ?

5 years is banded about in the litigation centre of the universe ,AKA -N America @ $ 5000 each side .

Across the pond here - its all a vague ? But happy to stand corrected ps !

Have a look next time on the VP stand @ boat show ,when you have finished playing @ docking on the nice demo game they set up to lure punters .

Any ways if fancy changing the jolly tone on the stand ask the guys in the white
Logo ,d shirts -"how long does that last ?"
"what's the reccomended change frequency ?"
"what happens if it tears ?"
"cost ps"


As an aside in a similiar vien @ Cannes I was on the MAN stand and asked
"how much the service kits were ?"
For two engines that I,d short listed

The guy in the logo d shirt with a French accent not German took my details .
By the time I got back to the boat ( that I was on ) later that evening
I had a very detailed e-mail parts ,labour ,schedules etc for both engines from the local Fr dealer .

Think about it if you "do a show " you must be able to field Q s from Joe Public .

Forum challenge
Ask the VP guys @ a show about the rubber skirt on IPS

 

[kashurst]

"Shaft drive - the gearboxes can die in all kinds of interesting ways. Then you have the massive metal rods that need to be exactly straight, aligned perfectly, supported by stern glands that are trying to slowly sink your boat, and cutlass bearings that need replacing. And if you run aground in shallow water, there is a good chance that the P-bracket will be driven up into the hull and quite definitely sink the boat. Add on that every time you use the boat, you are paying out because of the increased fuel bills (your props are pointing in the wrong direction)."

all true, but if the shafts are not perfectly aligned the boat will still run, it won't leave you stranded.
the cutlass bearings even down to the metal will still work, they won't leave you stranded.
Yes if you really stuff it up the P brackets can go into the boat - so can IPS drives although they shouldn't.
A shaft drive boat will definitely use more fuel, but on 50 - 100 hours a year you never recover the fuel saving V maintenance costs. Fuel is easy to replace
Also from reading various US websites - IPS legs need to be taken off, stripped and inspected - $5K a leg!!!!!!!
It seems to me that IPS is a potential big problem looking for a solution.

 

[Bouba]

Everybody is looking at the cost of the machinery and service and nobody is assigning a value to the IPS chief attribute, the handling. What price is stress free docking, no arguments and yelling at the first mate no fear of new ports and no anxiety over crowded peak season waterways. Since this is a leisure activity then that has to be worth something

 

[rubberduck]

Everybody is looking at the cost of the machinery and service and nobody is assigning a value to the IPS chief attribute, the handling. What price is stress free docking, no arguments and yelling at the first mate no fear of new ports and no anxiety over crowded peak season waterways. Since this is a leisure activity then that has to be worth something

Exactly, also the many detractors seem to be rather short on personal experience, more what they have heard or read.
Based on that I have read that I shouldn't be here now, but I am, just.

 

[kashurst]

I have been on an ipS boat, fast, very quiet, handles really well, parking looked very easy (I didn't park it), fuel efficient, it all just worked. However I don't have a problem parking shaft drive boats especially if they have a bow thruster and I don't yell at the crew.
The thing I personally find the most stressful about boating is reliability. All boats what ever the drive system sometimes breakdown. Hopefully in a minor way, but you do have to anticipate the worst case scenarios. So after 18 years and 6 boats I look for simplicity, ease of access and designs that aim to minimise the potential risk of downtime and the associated costs. This gives me peace of mind and maximises the enjoyment of boating.

 

[jrudge]

I think the last post summed it up.

Parking a boat on shafts is fine so what is the real upside for taking on huge compleixty?

 

[ari]

Much worse prospect than outdrives, as they are fully immersed, all the time. Impossible to maintain without lifting the boat. Fully electronic, 10 years old now. Better prospects out there.

Other than fully electronic (and even that applies to the many that are joystick controlled these days), doesn't everything you describe apply equally to outdrives?

 

[ari]

I personally will never have an outdrive propelled boat, and find the issues with shafts are easily outweighed by the massive disadvantages of outdrives, and the fuel costs savings only apply if you are doing considerable hours each year.

What are those 'massive disadvantages'? They cost £500 for a service every other year and there's a bit more to go wrong.

Countered by better performance, more economical running, quieter (engines much further back in the hull), more space on board (engines much further back in the boat). In a sub 35ft sportscruiser they're a bit of a no brainer to be honest.

And you can add far less potential for damage if you hit something in the water (they tilt up and props protected by skeg), far easier to reach if you wrap something around the prop (just tilt them and reach them from the safety of the bathing platform).

I'm not saying that they are 'the best', and if I were buying a 40ft flybridge I'd take shafts every time.

But I think writing them off wholesale for having 'massive disadvantages' is perhaps a little hasty.

 

[superheat6k]

What are those 'massive disadvantages'? They cost £500 for a service every other year and there's a bit more to go wrong.

Countered by better performance, more economical running, quieter (engines much further back in the hull), more space on board (engines much further back in the boat). In a sub 35ft sportscruiser they're a bit of a no brainer to be honest.

And you can add far less potential for damage if you hit something in the water (they tilt up and props protected by skeg), far easier to reach if you wrap something around the prop (just tilt them and reach them from the safety of the bathing platform).

I'm not saying that they are 'the best', and if I were buying a 40ft flybridge I'd take shafts every time.

But I think writing them off wholesale for having 'massive disadvantages' is perhaps a little hasty.

I shall decline your invitation to get further into this never-ending story. As I said I will never own a boat with outdrives, nor IPS for that matter.

 

[Bouba]

I think one other important part to the argument is that when these joystick systems are reviewed by magazines they say that they are the equivalent of fifteen years of experience. Perhaps those that have that and more need to cast their mind back a bit to see if they would have been helpful.
But of course the op's original question of ten year old IPS still stands

 

[Bandit]

IPS servicing costs are broadly similar to Out-drive, but do not underestimate the cost of shaft drive servicing over a ten year period, draw shafts for new shaft seals very 5 to 7 years, cutless bearings etc.

IPS out sell Zeus drives many times over. IPS is making strong inroads into most production leisure boat ranges an on commercial boats, windfarm, and work boats etc. IPS is now up to 900hp broadly equivalent to 1200hp

IPS is very reliable compared to out-drives.

I have shaft boat no 5 after an outboard boat and an out-drive boat, my personal preference would be shaft plus bow and stern thruster.

I was on a dealer day a couple of weeks ago and was on an IPS demo boat, I have driven them before and I was talking to the dealer of the well known UK manufacturer and i said my preference was for shafts and I asked the question for 45-50 foot boats and owners who have not had a boats before what percentage buy IPS over shaft? He said almost all first time owners buy IPS.

So maybe I am a dying breed.