Insurance & Surveys?

[GrandpaFlump]

Hi,

Looking to buy my first boat next week (Bayliner Ciera) and is a 87' with a BSC till 2006. I have had the hull and engine checked out by a friend who has owned boats for 30 yrs and now im quite happy to continue the purchase without a surveyors report, (but now the problem!) The insurers are asking for a surveyors report to insure the boat comprehensive which I have no intention of paying, ie lifting, surveying and droping which will cost me another 600, as the boat is only 16 yrs old am I right in thinking that I will not need a surveyors report until she is 20 yrs + old to get her insured? also does anybody know of a insurance company that are more lenient on this issue eg (survey not neccessary) is anybody else out there who has suffered the same problem? any feedback will be much appriciated

thanks Gav.



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[vyv_cox]

Try Haven Knox Johnstone. I've been with them since before I bought my current boat, now more than 8 years. They have never asked for a survey.

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[Evadne]

My sympathies, I have a 40 year old boat which seems to have needed an inordinate number of surveys, although St. Margarets have just increased the time for the next one so they might be worth a try as well.
That said, if you were buying anything else of comparable expense (e.g. a house) you'd expect to get a survey done, if only for peace of mind, and it can provide a basis for negotiating the price downwards. I'd tend to agree, plus a surveyor should also tell you what to look out for even if it's not gone wrong (yet). An optical once-over by a fellow sailor, however knowledgeable, isn't really a substitute for several hours of hammering on the hull and poking into things by a surveyor. Good luck.


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[oldharry]

Theres an old saying along the lines 'a fool and his money are soon parted'. This is very true with boats, as the cost of putting major faults to rights can often (always?) change that bargain into a large hole in the water into which you have to pour mor and more money.

Few owners will buy without survey, so unlike the second hand car market there is very little hope of selling a dud one on.

Insurers insist on surveys because they know just how much its could cost them if you are buying a pup. So they do not take chances.

Neither should you.

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[muchy_]

In my experience a survey is not really worth the paper its written on. They will say things like "engines seem to be ok but may fail in near future". There is always a getout clause. Just have a bloody good look at the thing. How has it been treated? Has the owner looked after the interior? Have the engines been serviced at the correct intervals? All this tells a much better story. However, it does seem that more and more insurance companies now ask for a full out of water survey before they will insure the boat, which is a bit of a shame really. I wonder how you would get on if you had a survey then had a problem with the boat and went back to the surveyer to find out why after he said it was alright? My own personal opinion is that its money for old rope. House surveys are exactly the same. I had my house surveyed before buying it. Six months after telling me that the pebble dashing was ok, a big lump falls off. When I asked the surveys why they said it was ok they just said read the survey. Sure enough, it says "pebble dashing seems ok, but may be dodgy". Reading down the survey it says the same for everything. Next time I'll just write it myself and save a few hundred quid.

Rant over............thats better.

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[LadyInBed]

Gut instinct is worth as much as a survey, but you will have to trust your friends!

You could try the online insurers <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.craftinsure.com/index.html> CraftInsure </A>

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[richardandtracy]

Why do you have a survey on a house? 99% of the time it's because the mortgage lender tells you to. Not the insurer.

If I ever can pay cash for a house (some chance!) I reckon it's within my sphere of competence to say whether the structure is sound or not. It really narks me that qualifications well in excess of those exhibited by surveyors are ignored by insurers and lenders just because you're an interested party in the purchase (aren't they interested too - thereby disqualifying themselves under their own rules?).

I've come across this idiocy elsewhere. I have been approved as a stress engineer by the CAA for aircraft seats (amongst other things), but the insurers wouldn't accept my word and analysis that a seat belt I added to my camper was OK - they insisted on an approved inspector looking at it. What engineering qualifications did he have? None.
Fools. Totally incompetent fools.

Regards

Richard.


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[smee]

I am in total agreement with Old Harry!

Most insurance companies won't insure unsurveyed boats over 10 years old, and good on them.
It protects both the buyer and the the general boating public. Most good brokers will push the point that it is extremely dodgy to buy a boat without one. When I worked in a brokerage office I saw and heard plenty of horror stories.

You may "save" £600 by not having a survey but that is a small fraction of the cost of most boats, and what about the cost of a life? If an accident happened and you killed or injured someone due to a fault with the boat that was unsurveyed, you would have no where to stand and no proof that your vessel was seaworthy!!!

Get it surveyed, and stop being so stingy!!

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[MCW]

Be very wary about insuring your vessel with a company who do not ask for a recent survey. I did with one, (pm for more details) for many years and all was ok until I made a claim. They then used the fact that there was no survey against me, stating that Icould not prove the condition of the vessel prior to the claim. They also claimed she was badly maintained and unseaworthy as well!
What I did not realise was that a survey is considered a legal statement as to the condition of the vessel at the time and is your safeguard against the insurers attempts to prove otherwise. So even though some are most probably not worth the paper they are written on,from personal experience I would advise a full survey by a member of the YSDA.

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[snowleopard]

what\'s a survey worth?

i had my boat surveyed by one jim pritchard who advertises in ym. he did a partial survey and rated the boat 'fit to lie at her moorings', then came back to check the electrics once they were complete. despite several requests i never got the full report saying the boat was fit for sea so i'm going to have to get the whole thing done again. (by someone else!!)

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[SteveA]

I had one of these boats and would agree with all who suggest a proper survey.

Another area to pay particular attention to is the outboard leg. If this one is like ours the gearchange is direct without any form of clutch. With the powers involved this gearing wears quite quickly until, like ours, it can't be taken out of gear under any load- we ended up having to stop the engine before being able to select neutral.( it was a 6year old Bayliner Cierra 2150 with a OMC V8) The replacement of this gearing, I would suspect, would now cost thousands. We sold to a dealer who was fully aware of the problem.

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