insurance sans survey

[sophie4]

After all the dithering I am now the proud owner of an Halcyon 27. My last two boats have been a Corribee and a Memory 19, I did not have to provide a survey to insure either of these but now it seems I will have to for the Halcyon. Does anyone know where I might get insurance without a survey?
PS thanks to Tillergirl for your information on official numbers, very useful.



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[tillergirl]

Can't answer your question, I'm afraid. Having got a wooden boat the first thing insurers do is hiss 'survey' at you. I couldn't even get coverage for one day afloat in a harbour and a two mile journey under power preparatory to lifting out for transport by road. I think some insurers use to accept 'condition reports' which were a cheaper version at one time. Did you get the blue book?

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[LadyInBed]

Try <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.craftinsure.com/index.html> Craft Insure </A> I switched to them this year, very competitive.

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[graham]

St Margarets sometimes dont ask for a survey .Only a phone call to find out 0800 0180 012.



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[charles_reed]

Strangely enough, in the 25 years I've been sailing I've never been asked for a survey for the purposes of insurance.

The first people with whom I insured were St Margarets and the second was via a broker, first with Lombard, then with Navigators and General.

The broker is Max Burgess at Yachtmaster Insurance, 52 High St, Ufford, Woodbridge IP13 6EQ, tel 01394 461331, e-mail Max@yachtmasteruk.co.uk.

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[dickh]

Try all the insurers who advertise in the back of the boating mags - but you may find you'll have to bite the bullet and get a survey because of the age of the boat....


<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[KMM]

In my experience most insurers will ask for a survey at least once when they first accept cover. One thing to ask , however, is how aften they will demand an update survey. If you accept cover from what appears to be an economical insurer only to discover that you need to spend several hundred pounds on a fresh survey every few years, then this effectively increases the premium costs dramatically.
For this reason I changed to an insurer who only asked for a survey on first acceptance.

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[primitiveman]

If you are in the RYA Bishop Skinner will insure without a survey. I had the same problem 4 years ago. All they wanted was some photographs of the boat. I had to make a claim a couple of years ago and they were very good.

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[tr7v8]

Mines with Navigator & General and they definitely don't require a survey.

<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[oldgit]

Seems to depend on age.more than 20 ish and you will prob. need survey.

<hr width=100% size=1>Two boats please one here n one in the Med

 

[Guest]

But what conditions will you accept ?

You may find things like your Excess is high if no survey

You may be ale to use a survey conducted by the previous owner if less than 5 yrs etc.

You may find that 'next year' they catch up with you and require one .....

All the above have happened to various I know. It is true though that many are actually dropping their insistence on them for some of the older boats, but I wonder how the affect is on the market with more of the newer CAD boats with lighter scantlings and higher liability to structural damage .... and how the insurance boys feel ????

Remember that your Halcyon will take quite a knock before structural occurs ! But some of todays offerings will definitely suffer seriously in same situation. If you were an underwriter - what would be your response ????

I think its a field that needs a lot of calls and questions to get what you want ..... and don't forget that many 'High-Street' Insurance brokers etc. now cover boats etc. They may not be 'experienced' Marine Brokers etc. but insurance is insurance I'm afraid and at the end of the day the broker does not decide the claim - in fact in my own case some while ago the broker actually refused to be involved and referred all to underwriter - who in turn only communicated by fax !!!! So much for their adverts about being the best and best prices !!!! They went down not long after - but I see they are back again !!!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Isn\'t it strange .... that a car

can be insured without survey ..... but a boat often is insisted on ??

Given that a car can do far more damage and kill a lot more and often nowadays is of similar value etc. to the more 'normal' boater !!!!

There are far more auto accidents and claims giving rise to the question of why the difference given that majority of boaters may never make a claim in all their boating lives !!!!

OH Yes !! Don't forget that what a marine policy does not cover - often Household contents does !!!! EG Handheld GPS dropped overboard / nicked etc. ..... fishing gear nicked etc. etc. Computer wrecked in that freak wave !!!!! Worth knowing .....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[charles_reed]

Re: Isn\'t it strange .... that a car

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but every car of over 3 years of age has, by law, to have an annual survey - it's called the MoT test and it's far more rigourous than any survey carried out on a boat.

Mind you it costs a lot less.

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[Guest]

Admission ..... I wanted that to be said !!

Yes the MOT test is far stricter than it was previous, but Boat surveys have remained similar for many more years. I am a Surveyor, Commercial and Yacht ...... I keep up with the latest views / info etc. etc. - but at the end of the day its a case of piece of paper giving the Insurer peace of mind.

The MOT previously left a lot to be desired ...... I admit to maybe bending the rules a bit on a few cars when I was younger ........... boat inspections are relatively unchanged ..... but vastly more expensive....... depending on who you use of course !!!! and how many books they have written !!!!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[charles_reed]

Re: Admission ..... I wanted that to be said !!

And what's more I don't blame them for wanting to have some information of the risk they're about to take on.

In fact the whole marine insurance business is fairly sloppily conducted, which may account for why marine insurers frequently turn out to be fairly slippery customers from whom to get a pay-out of any magnitude.

We only have to look at recent correspondence re Pantanaeius and various anecdotal reports I've heard.

We know that underwriting results have been pretty poor in the last 3 years and returns on cash appalling, which means that one or all of 3 things will happen:-

a) Premiums will rise
b) Underwriters will decline to insure those who they think may be a higher risk.
c) Requirements for disclosure will become increasingly onerous. (Which includes a full survey before accepting risk)

So, caveat emptor - if you have insurance without survey you can be pretty sure that you will not be covered for a number of risks to do with gradual deterioration.

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[chriscallender]

Hi Sophie4,

I was in the same boat as you so to speak. In the end I decided to get the survey done so that I could be fully insured (previously I just had 3rd party cover which you can get without survey).

In my view it was very much worth doing - the surveyor spotted a few details which I had overlooked and which had the potential to be very serious. One was the flexible hose connecting the sterngland to the hull which had deteriorated and needed replacing and the other was the shoe on the bottom of the rudder skeg which was slightly loose. I did end up having to have the boat lifted again to fix these items but I was able to do it myself over a long weekend, it wasn't so much of a big deal, and on the whole the surveyor agreed with my view that my boat was well maintained. But none of us who are not in that line of business are experts in all areas of maintenance and its really easy to miss a fault if you don't know what to look for.

Having someone experienced take a good look at an older boat is in my opinion very worth what it costs, and if you can find a good surveyor and let them know the survey is for insurance purposes rather than a prepurchase survey they should not put any non-critical recommendations in the report - I worried unnecesserily about some things that I thought the surveyor would make recommendations on, but in the end I think he came up with a very sensible level of recommendations.

I suppose some surveyors are better than others, but I certainly feel more confident in the boat as a result of having had a trained set of eyes look over her, and I'd probably want to get it done again in say 3 years time even if the insurance co. didn't require it.

So I'd say go for it, get the survey done by someone good, do the recommendations - costs a bit of money I know but I don't think the fees are rediculous for the amount of time a survey takes and its worth what you pay for it.

Good luck

Chris

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