Insurance reducing boat courses

harvey38

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 May 2008
Messages
2,138
Visit site
As our insurance is up for renewal soon @ £600, are there any courses insurance companies recognise that would reduce the premium?

I can handle a boat, navigate and am a safe sailor, I just don't have a bit of paper that proves it.
 
I asked a couple of companies about this as it’s usually one of the questions in the proposal. I was told that qualifications don’t count towards reducing the premium but can encourage an insurer to insure someone with either limited experience or an unusual/particularly high powered boat.
 
As our insurance is up for renewal soon @ £600, are there any courses insurance companies recognise that would reduce the premium?

I can handle a boat, navigate and am a safe sailor, I just don't have a bit of paper that proves it.
Important thing is the insurance cost proportion to insured boat value, mine is just shy of 0.5%, what’s yours? I’m with GJW.
 
Important thing is the insurance cost proportion to insured boat value, mine is just shy of 0.5%, what’s yours? I’m with GJW.
That is not strictly true. Only a portion of the premium is for the value of the boat, the rest is third party and largely independent of the value of the boat. So on a low value boat the third party element will be a larger proportion of the total.

To illustrate my current boat is insured for just over £100k and the premium is £450 - so 0.45%. My old wooden boat I sold a couple of years ago had an insured value of £13k premium £210 - so 1.6%.

Premiums are driven more by where you sail and keep your boat plus your claims record. %age of insured value is a poor comparator for different boats in different situations, but can be used for the same boat in the same situation for comparing different insurers. However it adds nothing because the difference just reflects the difference in premium between the two insurers.

The only way of comparing insurers is to get quotes based on exactly the same boat/situation for the same cover - but be aware that not all policies offer the same cover. The decision is the same as any other consumer decision - which offers the best value for you, but of course not always easy as difficult sometimes to decide on the value of what is on offer never mind the unknowns such as how well they deal with claims.
 
That is not strictly true. Only a portion of the premium is for the value of the boat, the rest is third party and largely independent of the value of the boat. So on a low value boat the third party element will be a larger proportion of the total.

To illustrate my current boat is insured for just over £100k and the premium is £450 - so 0.45%. My old wooden boat I sold a couple of years ago had an insured value of £13k premium £210 - so 1.6%.

Premiums are driven more by where you sail and keep your boat plus your claims record. %age of insured value is a poor comparator for different boats in different situations, but can be used for the same boat in the same situation for comparing different insurers. However it adds nothing because the difference just reflects the difference in premium between the two insurers.

The only way of comparing insurers is to get quotes based on exactly the same boat/situation for the same cover - but be aware that not all policies offer the same cover. The decision is the same as any other consumer decision - which offers the best value for you, but of course not always easy as difficult sometimes to decide on the value of what is on offer never mind the unknowns such as how well they deal with claims.
Interesting and logical. But the point remains that it is impossible to judge the value of insurance premium unless it is compared to the value of the asset which is insured. A premium seen in isolation is surely meaningless.
 
Interesting and logical. But the point remains that it is impossible to judge the value of insurance premium unless it is compared to the value of the asset which is insured. A premium seen in isolation is surely meaningless.
But that metric does not do that as the total premium is not a function of the value of the asset as I showed. A significant proportion (typically £150-200) of the premium is for third party risks which is largely independent of asset value. The only comparison is the premium against the cover offered in total. So just get 2 or more quotes for exactly the same cover and the cheaper is the better "value" except that it does not value the intangibles. Turning it into a percentage does not add anything. Also no good for comparing a premium for one boat compared with another, so does not help the OP.

Even if you could buy third party independent from asset insurance the %age of asset value still would not add anything because assuming the cover is the same the actual premium cost tells you which is the better value.
 
But that metric does not do that as the total premium is not a function of the value of the asset as I showed. A significant proportion (typically £150-200) of the premium is for third party risks which is largely independent of asset value. The only comparison is the premium against the cover offered in total. So just get 2 or more quotes for exactly the same cover and the cheaper is the better "value" except that it does not value the intangibles. Turning it into a percentage does not add anything. Also no good for comparing a premium for one boat compared with another, so does not help the OP.

Even if you could buy third party independent from asset insurance the %age of asset value still would not add anything because assuming the cover is the same the actual premium cost tells you which is the better value.
Okay, we’re not going to agree but thanks anyway.
 
That is not strictly true. Only a portion of the premium is for the value of the boat, the rest is third party and largely independent of the value of the boat. So on a low value boat the third party element will be a larger proportion of the total.

To illustrate my current boat is insured for just over £100k and the premium is £450 - so 0.45%. My old wooden boat I sold a couple of years ago had an insured value of £13k premium £210 - so 1.6%.

Premiums are driven more by where you sail and keep your boat plus your claims record. %age of insured value is a poor comparator for different boats in different situations, but can be used for the same boat in the same situation for comparing different insurers. However it adds nothing because the difference just reflects the difference in premium between the two insurers.

The only way of comparing insurers is to get quotes based on exactly the same boat/situation for the same cover - but be aware that not all policies offer the same cover. The decision is the same as any other consumer decision - which offers the best value for you, but of course not always easy as difficult sometimes to decide on the value of what is on offer never mind the unknowns such as how well they deal with claims.
As Tranona says, a substantial part of any yacht insurance is the third party cover, which is independent of value. From having worked in an organisation that depended on ships for routine operations, I can confidently state that ANY accident involving a ship may immediately cost a 6 figure sum, even for the most trivial of things. Delay on departure while investigating alone would do that, and repair costs for the lightest "fender-bender" damage on top of that. Ships are remarkably vulnerable to damage; someone once pointed out that an accurate 1:100 scale model would have to be made of foil! And I've pointed out before that a yacht with a 14m mast sinking from whatever cause in the ship channel off Landguard Point would block the ports of Felixstowe and Harwich, with costs running into millions. Thinking about things like that puts out usual £3,000,000 third party cover into perspective, and even makes you wonder if it's enough in some places!
 
We recently changed insurers and I was discussing this very point with a very experienced marine broker. He had inadvertently failed to add my qualifications to the initial proposal (commercially endorsed YM Offshore and RYA Cruising Instructor). I expected a healthy discount when the error was rectified and was disappointed when it amounted to a mere saving of £75 on a £700 premium!

I'm pro-qualification and believe that any experienced skipper will come out a better sailor after completing a suitable course, but it would appear that insurers are less concerned.

Interestingly, the broker had advised of a 'recklessness' clause, usually imbedded into the small print and often triggered in the event of a claim. He considered that a qualified skipper would stand a much better chance of this ambiguous clause leaving the insured out of pocket...
 
We recently changed insurers and I was discussing this very point with a very experienced marine broker. He had inadvertently failed to add my qualifications to the initial proposal (commercially endorsed YM Offshore and RYA Cruising Instructor). I expected a healthy discount when the error was rectified and was disappointed when it amounted to a mere saving of £75 on a £700 premium!

That is because the skill of the skipper has very little to do with the level of claims. The vast majority of claims cost is related to damage caused by the elements, natural disasters or third parties. Qualifications are just one small element in assessing risk and the "discount" you got is much the same as that usually given for keeping the boat in a marina rather than on a mooring and less than half the no claims discount. However having qualifications may well influence premiums, or even the willingness to offer insurances for particular patterns of usage, such as extended offshore sailing for example. On the other hand some insurers offer a similar "discount" just for being a member of a particular club or organisation!

As ever it is largely irrelevant how the price is calculated, the only thing that matters is the net premium for the cover offered. No different from buying any other consumer product.
 
That is because the skill of the skipper has very little to do with the level of claims. The vast majority of claims cost is related to damage caused by the elements, natural disasters or third parties. Qualifications are just one small element in assessing risk and the "discount" you got is much the same as that usually given for keeping the boat in a marina rather than on a mooring and less than half the no claims discount. However having qualifications may well influence premiums, or even the willingness to offer insurances for particular patterns of usage, such as extended offshore sailing for example. On the other hand some insurers offer a similar "discount" just for being a member of a particular club or organisation!

As ever it is largely irrelevant how the price is calculated, the only thing that matters is the net premium for the cover offered. No different from buying any other consumer product.
In most cases, a skipper's skill or lack of it restricts the type of sailing they are likely to do quite effectively. Inexperienced or unskilled skippers tend to confine their sailing in ways that reflect their skill, except in the few cases where they underestimate the dangers or overestimate their skills! Shane Actons or the like are few and far between; "Captain Calamity" types are rare enough that they get wide reporting through things like these fora. But most people who lack experience and/or skill tend to limit their ventures to waters and conditions they know they can handle.

There was one story reported here about a boat owner who had for years kept a boat on the Thames, and once a year had trundled round to somewhere like Ramsgate. This person did an RYA course, and at the end of the first day was white and trembling! Asked why, the answer was "I didn't realize how dangerous my annual trip was!"

For clarity, I'm NOT suggesting that Shane Acton or his like are "Captain Calamities"!
 
Top