Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Looking at a 27 footer with inmast furling main.Are these systems reliable and in the event of malfunction can I revert to a normal main,which would be my real choice?
Inmast furling main....
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
snooks
Well-Known Member
"Why do do you want in mast furling on the 27 footer?" would be my first question...but seeing it's not yours I don't suppose I'll find out the answer 
Is it a modern system you are looking at or an older one? and is it external or internal on the mast?
If it modern, then they are "generally" pretty reliable. But the problem with mainsail furling is that if you have a problem/jam there is no way of getting the sail in or out/up or down so you're stuck with that amount of sail up until you get it sorted.
The advantages of furling mainsails is that you can have exactly the right amount of sail area out when it starts blowing and it can usually all be controlled from the cockpit
But without knowing more about the system it's a bit hard to advise
Is it a modern system you are looking at or an older one? and is it external or internal on the mast?
If it modern, then they are "generally" pretty reliable. But the problem with mainsail furling is that if you have a problem/jam there is no way of getting the sail in or out/up or down so you're stuck with that amount of sail up until you get it sorted.
The advantages of furling mainsails is that you can have exactly the right amount of sail area out when it starts blowing and it can usually all be controlled from the cockpit
But without knowing more about the system it's a bit hard to advise
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
I agree but the boat is interesting type and price wise.From the pics it is a proper inmast not an added...still I do agree that there is a big downside if it jams up!!
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
My in mast furtling (standard Seldon) has a slot/track along side the furling gear slot where a main with the correct very small bolt rope (or trysail) may be hoisted. Useful as a get you home, but probably not very satisfactory as an everyday sail system.
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
Inmast furling-experience so far
Bought a second hand boat in October despite it having internal inmast furling. Has a 15 year old maxiroach main. At first, chaos! We had numerous snarl ups and jams. At last things are now much better, but still potentially dicey.
We observed that the secret is in the furling. If that is set up properly and the sail furled without a crease, then unfurling is possible. Otherwise the leech folds over and you have a solid jam.
We have moved the fixing point for the kicker forward so that, when the topping lift is set up to a mark to allow the sail to furl as above it goes in properly. We make sure not to pull too hard on outhaul when unfurling. We keep yacht slightly on port tack with mainsheet released. Most times success, the sail unfurls and sets properly.
Reefing has not been a problem. Indeed easy.
A mast step ladder has just been purchased, to hoist in the trysail track, so that I can climb the mast to defuse any subsequent jam.
When it works its jolly good though.
Bought a second hand boat in October despite it having internal inmast furling. Has a 15 year old maxiroach main. At first, chaos! We had numerous snarl ups and jams. At last things are now much better, but still potentially dicey.
We observed that the secret is in the furling. If that is set up properly and the sail furled without a crease, then unfurling is possible. Otherwise the leech folds over and you have a solid jam.
We have moved the fixing point for the kicker forward so that, when the topping lift is set up to a mark to allow the sail to furl as above it goes in properly. We make sure not to pull too hard on outhaul when unfurling. We keep yacht slightly on port tack with mainsheet released. Most times success, the sail unfurls and sets properly.
Reefing has not been a problem. Indeed easy.
A mast step ladder has just been purchased, to hoist in the trysail track, so that I can climb the mast to defuse any subsequent jam.
When it works its jolly good though.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Jesus that sounds like a nightmare....
With me... I go out... point it into the wind.... pull on a line... and the sail goes up to the top of the mast!
Occasionally I put a bit of teflon spray stuff on the help it go up easier.
When I want it to come down... I point it up into the wind... and release the line and it comes down.
Sounds so damn simple... why would anyone want a inmast thingy...????
All that extra weight aloft... the stress of will it wont it jam type of thing... the **** pointing... Blimey!
With me... I go out... point it into the wind.... pull on a line... and the sail goes up to the top of the mast!
Occasionally I put a bit of teflon spray stuff on the help it go up easier.
When I want it to come down... I point it up into the wind... and release the line and it comes down.
Sounds so damn simple... why would anyone want a inmast thingy...????
All that extra weight aloft... the stress of will it wont it jam type of thing... the **** pointing... Blimey!
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
looks like I wont be interested in that boat then!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
A properly designed in mast such as the Selden does not suffer from the problems described above.
To paraphrase Photodog -
I pull the outhaul and out comes the sail.
When I want to reef it, I pull on a continuous reefing line in the cockpit until I have exactly the right amount of sail out.
When I want to put the sail away, I pull more on the reefing line and the whole lot rolls away.
Every time!
Who would want to have an old fashioned sail instead of that!
(All by the way on the same make of boat as Photodog, but rather bigger!)
BTW on purpose designed rigs weight aloft is not an issue and the "jamming" thing is vastly overstated. Have a look at the charter boats in the Med. Almost exclusively in mast furling. They would not do that if they were not reliable!
If the boat you are looking at was designed to have in mast furling (that is not an add on), do not dismiss it - although the downside of loss of sail area (unless the overall area has been increased) is more noticeable on a smaller boat. However you may find as I do that the overall simplicity and flexibility allows you to balance the boat better to meet conditions and achieve similar passage times with less effort.
To paraphrase Photodog -
I pull the outhaul and out comes the sail.
When I want to reef it, I pull on a continuous reefing line in the cockpit until I have exactly the right amount of sail out.
When I want to put the sail away, I pull more on the reefing line and the whole lot rolls away.
Every time!
Who would want to have an old fashioned sail instead of that!
(All by the way on the same make of boat as Photodog, but rather bigger!)
BTW on purpose designed rigs weight aloft is not an issue and the "jamming" thing is vastly overstated. Have a look at the charter boats in the Med. Almost exclusively in mast furling. They would not do that if they were not reliable!
If the boat you are looking at was designed to have in mast furling (that is not an add on), do not dismiss it - although the downside of loss of sail area (unless the overall area has been increased) is more noticeable on a smaller boat. However you may find as I do that the overall simplicity and flexibility allows you to balance the boat better to meet conditions and achieve similar passage times with less effort.
rickp
Well-Known Member
So how do in-boom systems stack up against in-mast systems? Pros and con's of both would be interesting for a novice
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That subject has been well covered in the magazines over the years. There are clearly advantages from in boom including ability to keep sail area and use battens, but it has never really caught on with production boats. I think this is largely cost. An inmast as OE is little different in cost to a conventional rig and very well accepted by the market. In boom, based on the aftermarket prices would be substantially more expensive. However, probably cheaper than changing the mast on a retrofit where the market seems to be.
cmedsailor
Well-Known Member
So many horror stories for in mast main sails from people that don't use it....sails getting stack and not moving....strong winds and huge waves are about to kill you because you are left with your main flagging and there is nothing you can do....PLEASE, GIVE US A BREAK.
Masts designed for in mast sails are just fine. You will just need to practise a little bit to get it right. Same applies for roller genoas as well. If you don't furl it fine then it will get stuck during unfurling. What's the big deal? You can ALWAYS furl it back, though usually you only need to pull it from the clew (not use the outhaul) and it will unfurl OK.
If you don't own a boat with proper in mast mechanism stop advising for something you don't know how to use it. It's just a sail that makes life easier. True it has disadvantages performance wise but even there it could benefit you. You never need to worry when it's time to reef. Just furl it as much as you like and then unfurl it. You could do this all the time without loosing time in a race. Overall result? Could take you faster to finish point from competitors.
I have a sparcraft mast with in mast main sail. It works OK. The sail is getting old and baggy and sometimes it gets stuck during unfurling. What's the big deal? I just pull it with my arm or furl it back and try again.
There are thousands of posts on how to use this "dangerous" beast.
And a last point for "classic main sail" owners. NOTHING against it. In fact my sparcraft mast offers me the option to turn it into classic mast, but I use the boat more for cruising with my family rather than racing. If I was racing more then definately I would prefer the classic must.
In terms of safety, in mast is just fine.
Thanks
Masts designed for in mast sails are just fine. You will just need to practise a little bit to get it right. Same applies for roller genoas as well. If you don't furl it fine then it will get stuck during unfurling. What's the big deal? You can ALWAYS furl it back, though usually you only need to pull it from the clew (not use the outhaul) and it will unfurl OK.
If you don't own a boat with proper in mast mechanism stop advising for something you don't know how to use it. It's just a sail that makes life easier. True it has disadvantages performance wise but even there it could benefit you. You never need to worry when it's time to reef. Just furl it as much as you like and then unfurl it. You could do this all the time without loosing time in a race. Overall result? Could take you faster to finish point from competitors.
I have a sparcraft mast with in mast main sail. It works OK. The sail is getting old and baggy and sometimes it gets stuck during unfurling. What's the big deal? I just pull it with my arm or furl it back and try again.
There are thousands of posts on how to use this "dangerous" beast.
And a last point for "classic main sail" owners. NOTHING against it. In fact my sparcraft mast offers me the option to turn it into classic mast, but I use the boat more for cruising with my family rather than racing. If I was racing more then definately I would prefer the classic must.
In terms of safety, in mast is just fine.
Thanks
ITH
Well-Known Member
In-mast
Slight thread drift, but how do you control your outhaul? We have a 20-odd year old Selden 'Furlin' system for the main, which is controlled at the mast, and echo your experiences re convenience etc. But even in modest conditions, and pointing into wind, the sail tends to fly out to its maximum setting at the end of the boom and flap around, until you can gradually wind in at the mast to control it.
In stronger winds the sail flaps so much that it has already shaken three of the vertical sail battens out of their pockets.
Slight thread drift, but how do you control your outhaul? We have a 20-odd year old Selden 'Furlin' system for the main, which is controlled at the mast, and echo your experiences re convenience etc. But even in modest conditions, and pointing into wind, the sail tends to fly out to its maximum setting at the end of the boom and flap around, until you can gradually wind in at the mast to control it.
In stronger winds the sail flaps so much that it has already shaken three of the vertical sail battens out of their pockets.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
You need to have a continuous furling line from the drum through blocks back to the cockpit with rope clutches to lock it off. Not always fitted as standard but very useful.
snooks
Well-Known Member
Amazing, you're making up what you want to read and arguing against it
No one mentioned life threatening waves, breaking over incapacitated yachts. [michael winner] Calm down dear, it's just a forum [/michael winner]
And where are these people that don't use inmast furling? While I don't own a boat with in mast furling I've sailed from Antigua to the Bahamas as well as numerous other passages, charters, cross channel and coastal not to mention all the boats tests with the magazine on boats with inmast furing, so I would like to think that I have some experience of using them, and feel able to comment on their use.
The fact is that they do jam, and as long as you know to expect it, or do a routine to avoid it there isn't a problem.
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
My earlier post was an honest report of my experience so far with a purpose built Selden system, not an add-on. We are getting more skilled at using the system, but it does take time. I do agree that reefing is very easy-quick and to the size you need. It is certainly easier to stow the sail at the end of a passage, but you must take care to furl it properly or it will jam on unfurl. I must say that windward performance seems not to be really effected even though I do not wind down the backstay; I have been pleasurably surprised by this.
BrianH
Well-Known Member
Indeed, my Profurl in-boom retro-fit, on a 9.4m boat, has cost me a tad over 4K euros, including new mainsail - significantly less than an in-mast alternative.
Not that it has been a painless operation. I am still pressuring the sailmaker to cure the jamming that I am currently experiencing when reefing, which I believe is due to the cut at the luff.
Then again, even if the mainsail does jam when rolling, it can still always be dropped and secured, an advantage over an in-mast jamming scenario.
