Information on getting a topsail needed!

[dave_bainbridge]

Hi all,

Our boat is gaff rigged but lacks a topsail. Having talked to a few people and read about it too, there are various opinions about how to go about this - especially spar length, diameter, and material, as well as sail dimensions and so on.

If anyone can provide any other suefulpointers or people I shouidl talk to Iäd be grateful!

Thanks

 

[Peterduck]

John Leather's 'Gaff Rig Handbook', and Howard Chapelle's 'Yacht Designing' are good places to look for the info that you need.
Peter.

 

[jon]

What size Gaffer? If in the range 25-30ft I could help with dimensions,diagrams etc......... PM me.

 

[Seagreen]

You could post up a diagram here. The real issue is how far the masthead extends upwards beyond the peak of the gaff. If, for example, you may need a topsail yard or both a jack and jenny yard for the topsail clew. You will also need halyards, blocks and mast sheaves for all the running gear. All good fun.

What type of boat is she? Post a picture please!

 

[Victorious]

There are several ways of doing it
Ask ten people with topsail expirience.... And you will very likely get ten different answers. (possably eleven cos one of em cant make his mind up)
Some details about the size and type of boat and the existing rig are essential before anyone with any real knowledge is going to make much detailed comment.

Asking about standing and running rigging for my topmast produced a wide range of possabilitys .In my case some suggestions conflicted with what is historicaly correct.. And opinions as to what IS historicly correct also varied a lot.... next week the topsail will be finished and i might find out if what I have done will actually work! (assuming we get a steady F2 to F3 anytime soon)

 

[Woodlouse]

As has been said, there is no right or wrong way to rig up a topsail. Only what works and what doesn't. No two boats use exactly the same system. So it's really up to you. How big do you want the sail to be? Do you want spars or not? What sort of gap is there between the gaff and the mast? I think a picture of your sail plan is required.

 

[cliffordpope]

The easiest option is if there is already sufficient projection of the mast above the gaff jaws, and all you want to do is fill an existing triangular space with sail.
If you need or want to do more than that, you either have to have the sail on a yard, a bit like a gunter rig, projecting above the mast, or fit a top mast, or replace the mast with a longer one.
The complications arise in trying to keep the sail close in to the mast. Traditionally this was done with mast hoops, but obviously they wouldn't slide all the way down to deck level, so someone had to go aloft to bend on the sail.
You can either simply rely on pulling the downhaul on the bottom corner as tight as possible, or you can do some clever stuff with a sliding strop on the upper mast, or you can hank the sail to its own halyard. It's all described in John Leather's book.

 

[oldfrank]

Call Jeckells Sails. They make more gaff sails than anyone else in the UK. They'll do it all for you. OF

 

[dave_bainbridge]

Hi everyone!

First, many thanks to you all for the input.

Marta is 12.1m LOA, 3.85m beam. Currently she is sloop rigged with a fixed bowsprit. Built 1935 in Denmark, she is currently in Stockholm (which is useful because that's where we are too /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif)

Total sail area is 57 sq. m., Mainsail 25 sqm, Staysail 11 sqm, and jib 21 sqm.

Just looking at other similar vessels she seems to be a bit light in sail area ....


For reference the gaff is 5.20m long and the mast height 13m.

Here is a photo:

marta

The top mast band has a fitting for a block between the two backstays.

I am at work at present so I don't have the other dimensions available.

As suggested I will contact Jeckells. Spars needn't be a problem because I ´just have to decide what to cut down in the garden - at least as a temporary measure. And from what others have said I am not even sure whether I will need one.

Cheers

Dave

 

[cliffordpope]

No, you don't need any spars. The top mast is already there. All you need is a way of hoisting the two top corners of a basically triangular sail up to the top of the topmast and the end of the gaff.
Ideally the sail is cut away below the spectacle bands joining the two masts, and the lower corner continues a short way below the gaff jaws.
The measurements are crucial, because the set depends on getting and maintaining the right gaff angle. If you lift the peak another inch, the topsail goes slack.
As I said, you need to decide how the luff of the sail is going to be held in against the topmast. Presumably you want to be able to set it from deck? A single cringle just above the cutaway point will do this, and if you run the downhaul through eyes on a rope strop and the cringle, the sail will still lower to the deck but it will pick up the strop on the way up and hold the sail against the mast.

Lovely boat by the way!

 

[dave_bainbridge]

Clifford,

As you say I would want to set the sail from the deck, so your post provided loads of useful pointers on how to do this, especially as far as keeping the sail close to the mast and making sure that the angle of the gaff is right so that the topsail is not hanging like a limp rag ...

The gaff already has a sheave at the end (not in a comb, but in the body of the gaff itself). The solution using a strop is interesting. I had not come across that before.

As for the boat, yes we are very pleased with her. She needs some TLC but she oozes character. We are planning a trip to the UK next year sometime.

I have sent an enquiry to Jeckells as suggested elsewhere in this thread, so I will see what measurements they suggest.

 

[Seagreen]

Just to add a bit, the topsail has to be cut to fit the the gap with the gaff set as per usual. Setting the topsail, the gaff is "overpeaked" - hoisted up a bit, so the topsail clew can be hauled out tight to this, <u>as long as the luff of the topsail has been set up tight first.</u>
once the topsail clew is hauled out tight, the gaff is then lowered back slightly to its normal position to finally tighten up the topsail.

The luff arrangements are going to be interesting, and there are a number of ways to do this.

Since you appear to have a fidded running topmast (v nice, btw) you can add a wire like an extra stay from just below the topsail halyard sheave on the aft side of the mast,( make sure it'll fit though the upper band when lowering the mast- you may ave to taper the mast at this point) to the deck, which sets up at deck level with a bottlescrew and blake slip on an eye, one each side of the mast. This "leader" can be moved either side as preferred for long tacks (has to be passed over the lowered gaff) and ought to be set up taught. This acts as a luff wire for the top half of the topsail, while the bottom half with the cutaway for the masthead is hauled down taught to the deck.

The topsail can also be set up using its own halyard in similar fashion but this won't keep it as close to the mast, or as tight.

Then theres topsail yards, which tend to get in the way when not in use, but avoids having extra wires and look damn good, but maybe not aesthetically true to the boat. They don't half extend the sail area for light airs, though!