johnalison
Well-Known Member
I’m with the club, though it’s clearly not a very posh one or the burgee would have to be masthead. Putting a burgee to port would be as weird as flying the ensign at the bow.
In the real world.
- Thread starter oldgit
- Start date
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
Its our boat that isn’t posh enough. We have no masthead provision, and no means of making one without making new holes in our carbon mast.
westhinder
Well-Known Member
Flag etiquette threads always make me reflect how much easier life is on our side of the North Sea. Club burgee port, starboard, masthead or none at all. Striking the ensign at sunset… No one notices, let alone they get excited about it.
Then again, you had better hoist your motoring cone, the police do take that seriously
Then again, you had better hoist your motoring cone, the police do take that seriously
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
There are plenty of them (us) around.
I don't currently own a red ensign but I do have a saltire so I've stuck that on the backstay.
Tbh I don't think an official has actually laid eyes on our boat any time we've checked in somewhere. It's always been a case of taking the dinghy ashore.
But I've only sailed UK, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Cape Verde, and the Caribbean/Bahamas.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
Flag etiquette threads always make me reflect how much easier life is on our side of the North Sea. Club burgee port, starboard, masthead or none at all. Striking the ensign at sunset… No one notices, let alone they get excited about it.
Then again, you had better hoist your motoring cone, the police do take that seriously
In the real world:
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
It's more obvious should you go into marinas. Someone will probably moan.
The eyes laid on your boat that you don't see are through binoculars. Again we witnessed this first hand in the Bahamas. A customs guy pointed out the yacht that incurred a large fine for not clearing in.
Anyway, as I mentioned before, most don't seem troubled.
Personally though, I don't find it at all onerous to fly an ensign and a courtesy flag when required. Its not exactly difficult and time consuming......
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Also works to denote a vessel motoring with sails up in the event of an insurance dispute. Again very unlikely and when sailing for fun, I'm as lazy as everyone else.....
mikegunn
Well-Known Member
It has been my understanding, but can’t remember from where I gleaned the information, that when entering a foreign port the “Q” flag alone should be flown from the starboard flag halyards. That should be replaced by the appropriate courtesy flag when, and only when the vessel’s presence has been accepted by the country’s custom officials. As I say, I cannot remember my source of that information, nor have been able to find an unequivocal description of the formality on the internet. I am therefore very happy to be corrected if someone can advise me of an official procedure.
Mike
Mike
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Depends where you look. For me, the advice I've used over many tides is that you hoist a courtesy flag when you enter a countries territorial waters to signify that you agree to comply with that states laws. You may find advice in a pilot book to see if the place you enter is strict or laid back about this.
It's so easy, why not?
It's so easy, why not?
mikegunn
Well-Known Member
I would suggest that it’s an historical thing. It’s not so long ago that a ship’s crew may be ignorant of the laws pertaining to the port which they were entering, including whether or not a courtesy flag should be flown. Understanding and ensuring compliance with any relevant regulations would be part of the induction procedure exercised by the country’s customs and immigration departments. I would imagine that the subsequent flying of a courtesy flag would then indicate acceptance of the situation by all interested parties.Depends where you look. For me, the advice I've used over many tides is that you hoist a courtesy flag when you enter a countries territorial waters to signify that you agree to comply with that states laws. You may find advice in a pilot book to see if the place you enter is strict or laid back about this.
It's so easy, why not?
Mike
jbweston
Well-Known Member
Flag etiquette threads always make me reflect how much easier life is on our side of the North Sea. Club burgee port, starboard, masthead or none at all. Striking the ensign at sunset… No one notices, let alone they get excited about it.
Then again, you had better hoist your motoring cone, the police do take that seriously
It's easy over here if we just adopt a live-and-let-live approach. Each of us can be as traditional or not as we please but stop short of expecting everyone else to do what we do.
It's a bit like wearing a tie. No problem if any of us want to wear one. The problem is when any of us expect other people to wear a tie and make out not to do so is some indication of discourtesy, lack of breeding or rebellion.
Legal requirements - that is actual legal requirements, not what someone seems to recall that that some old naval officer wrote in a pamphlet claiming to state the requirements of the law but giving no authority for his opinions - are legal requirements, and disobeyed at the individual's own risk. But bear in mind that the majority of drivers disobey the legal requirements of the speed limit at least once most times they get in the car.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
For all I know, #28 may be correct, but that doesn't mean that some foreign jobsworth will also know it. The term 'courtesy ensign' carries the implication that not showing one is a discourtesy, and given the choice of not complying with regulations or possibly giving offence to a foreign official, I would err on the side of my own convenience.
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
I’ve never tried breaking that particular law, so I’ve no idea what could happen.
Daedelus
Well-Known Member
We wore a blue and were mistaken for an Australian yacht. Well worth it as Johnny foreigner hasn't got a clue what you are at.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
Even when wearing red we were often taken for being Australian in the Baltic, in places like Sweden and Germany. The more sophisticated ones thought we were New Zealand. One German cop wondered why we weren't wearing white.
jbweston
Well-Known Member
I've had some good conversations with Nordic sailors as my old boat used to wear a defaced blue CA ensign and it raised a lot of interest. Many Finnish boats seem to have defaced ensigns as many clubs have their own. I never quite worked out whether all Finnish clubs do.
Now I've crossed to the Dark Side I haven't bothered to apply for a permit and the boat wears a red ensign. In think looked on only as 'a flag' the red ensign is attractive, although I do think the Swedish ensign is the most beautiful of the European ones. The blue and yellow go so well together.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
I think I would agree with that. Over a certain size, though, I think there is nothing to match any of ours because of their proportions. Other things being equal, I think that horizontal stripes such as Dutch and German look much better than vertical such as the French and Belgian with the same colours. In spite of my respect for the country, I find the Polish ensign bland, unless defaced.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
But assembling the Ikea ensign is a bit of a bugger
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