In sympathy with Yachties....

[Piers]

On the return trip from St Vasst to the Solent on the MBM Normandy cruise, I cruised from abeam Bembridge to Lymington at 6kts. What an experience....

Many boats were around - it was a fine, hot, sunny day, and the day before the Tall Ships Parade.

I have to say I have now come out on the side of Yachties. Why? Motor boat after motor boat passed really close, their wakes creating the most severe rolling.

I cannot believe anyone did it on purpose. I just think they had no idea of the effect of their wash, nor how far away they should be, or how slow they should travel, to reduce the effect.

Is it an education process that's needed? If so, how?

It certainly taught me some lessons, if only to be much more sympathetic to yachties.

Piers du Pré
MBM Cruising Club enthusiast
www.playdeau.com

 

[Guest]

I can imagine the effect, I remember the first voyage on my boat from non tidal Thames to Brighton and
we had stopped at the pier outside South Dock on the tidal Thames waiting for enough tide for the lock
Yes I know we were stationary but when the Thames Cats (thanks Mr Sean Collins) came steaming up
at a fair rate of knots to berth in front of us, the effect on my 10 ton boat was like being stopped
beam on in a force 5-6. We were inside the cabin holding everything down hoping the cleats would'nt
break.

"The Med is calling me"

 

[Guest]

Years ago my late father had a princess 33 it would only cruise at 9 knots or so, all the time we had to experience faster boats passing us and throwing us about, but we did not complain and accepted this as boating in general, the goods and bad of this pastime, I think we could give them more room, but only when they stop some of there antics that they throw at us, respect in my book has to be earned.

paul js.

 

[DepSol]

Sorry Piers with Paul on this one. Otherwise there would be no point in buying a fast boat as you would always have to go as slow as the others around. If you buy a boat that is going to get caught up in wash from others then tough you bought it for what you wanted from that boat and if you have to put up with the others doing what they bought theres for then you have made your bed so lie in it.

Not saying I go out to deliberatly to cause people discomfort but if I have to slow down for everyone or wait for them to do this that and the other it would spoil my fun.

Yesterday I thought no I will be polite and not overtake that raggie before he enters the harbour in Dielette and he then ended up taking the last decent space on the visitors pontoon and I had to squeeze my 26 footer into a 28 ft space. If I had overtaken him like I could have done or should have done he would have had to waste the time finding a space elsewhere and not me. I was still olite and said hello as he went past and he didnt even have the manners to say hello back and that includes his ugly wife!!

Be polite but dont ruin your own fun cos they bought a boat that is not right for your boating conditions.

Dom

I am boating again ;-)

 

[BarryH]

Why do people moan about wash so much, Lets face it water moves!!. I've only got a 21ft boat, but I mix it with the big boys down Poole way. Theres supposed to be a 10 knot limit in the harbour and 1400 mtrs radius from southhaven point outside it. Most of the boats at 10 knots kick up a massive wash. Its a fact of life boats on water make it move. If you don't like it, take up golf! Wash in the wrong place is an annoyance agreed. But if your out on the big wide briney and loads of boats around , what else can you expect, a mill pond.

Rant Over

OK, to hell with it. Unbolt it and we'll use it as an anchor!

 

[lanason]

I get totally fed up with the wash my 4 year old son creates when he is in the bath. Makes a mess everywhere .....

out in the boat ..... then i expect it....... but I do resort to the occasional "Hey slow down" especially on the river last night. one big Princess I think sent all the boats a rocking for the wrong reasons !!! ;-)))

Adrian

Genius is not recognised during ones lifetime....

 

[david_e]

Have just returned from 2 weeks (1 glorious!) on the welsh Riviera and, to answer your question, it is an education process. Out on the water a couple of power boats did the courteous thing and made a detour away from my 21ft sailboat. Dozens of others seem to use the boat as a target, homing in from a mile away, to go blasting past at high speed, no life jackets, kids ready to be jetisoned out. Why when there is not a space problem do they take such risks? When the water is flatish it seems that sense flies out of the window and all hell lets loose, it only takes a lapse in concentration, a rogue wave, a loose piece of flotsam or whatever to tip these craft over and not only are their lives in danger so are ours? If they would keep clear then fine, do what they like, but when my family are aboard I wish they would keep a safe distance away.

It is an education issue, not regulation, have said this before but will keep on saying it.

Thanks for your honesty in posting your view.

 

[david_e]

<<Otherwise there would be no point in buying a fast boat as you would always have to go as slow as the others around. If you buy a boat that is going to get caught up in wash from others then tough you bought it for what you wanted from that boat and if you have to put up with the others doing what they bought theres for then you have made your bed so lie in it.>>

So if there were regulation what would you view be then?

<<Not saying I go out to deliberatly to cause people discomfort but if I have to slow down for everyone or wait for them to do this that and the other it would spoil my fun.>>

How unselfish of you.

<<Yesterday I thought no I will be polite and not overtake that raggie before he enters the harbour in Dielette and he then ended up taking the last decent space on the visitors pontoon and I had to squeeze my 26 footer into a 28 ft space. If I had overtaken him like I could have done or should have done he would have had to waste the time finding a space elsewhere and not me. I was still olite and said hello as he went past and he didnt even have the manners to say hello back and that includes his ugly wife!!>>

And had this been a powerboat what would your reaction be?

<<I am boating again ;-) >>

How unfortunate, lets hope Volvo can do raggies a favour again.

 

[Geoffs]

It's funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing off Cowes yesterday, Saturday. It was packed with lots of different craft as there was power boat racing. Everyone, mostly everyone, power and sail were chugging alond at a leisurly six knots or so, because it was so busy.

But there was one, a largeish Sealine flybridge who just ploughed through the lot at high speed. It's not the wah so much, although it was big, but it was just bloomin dangerous in such crowded space.

OK the race boats were really shifting, that's what they're there for, listening on M2, race control was having a hell of a job keeping te course clear.



Old Chinese proverb 'Man who sail boat into rice field, soon get into paddy'

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Oh, please, Piers, this subject has been flogged to death but if you want I'll flog it some more. First, if you must go up the Solent on a Bank Holiday weekend dont expect to do it splendid isolation. Second dont do it in your sports cruiser - it is'nt remotely suited to trundling at 6 knots, try something with a keel and half a ton of lead in it and you wont roll so much. Third, the commercial/professional traffic out there make far more wash than we do - or are'nt they allowed out there either when you're pottering about? Fourth, its not so bad anyway - I towed a broken down cruiser into Poole a few weeks ago at 5 knots and I was surprised how comfortable it was despite all sorts of boats buzzing about

 

[DepSol]

Just cos you have picked a boat that is inadequate for its needs when it comes to wash is not my fault. Fastermotor boats over take me and I dont complain about the wash I just slow down and cross it and carry on with life.

In the narrow passageways between Islands around Guernsey it is just a fact that people put up with without moaning.

I am just saying that I go boating to enjoy myself if I have to think about everyones feelings everytime I get near them its not worth being out on the water. I jus think that people should stop moaning about wash as it is a fact of life but do moan about people not obeying the rules of the raods and not being corteous enough to give you enough room or time to manouvre out of the wash after overtaking you.

Can we stop the wash debate as you cant stop the wash!

Dom

I am boating again ;-)

 

[Moose]

Hey Hey, I'm diving into an argument!

We were out the other day on a sea trial on (hopefully) 'our' Phantom 37, obviously we had a skipper from the brokers with us, and we were amazed at his policy of swamping every yachtie in sight, he said that "its their own fault that they are going too slowly" --------------I felt embarrased sitting up on the flybridge with him powering past yachts 30ft away with a 4ft high wash spreading out behind us.
Now, we are new to boating, (well motorboating) and surely our skippers attitude is not one that we want being passed on to every other new boater, is it?

Also being out on the boat made me appreciate what a problem wash is (after watching and chuckling in front of the PC as I have read arguments about wash for the last year), in the busy entrance to Chichester where do you 'dump' all your wash without affecting other boats, fine you can slow down 2 miles out and poodle in at 8kt's but then why not buy a Trader/Grand Banks?

Moose

I want a boat!!!.........a nice big one that is really cheap and runs on air.

 

[kimhollamby]

I was there too...

...and have to say that, you can forget this point being about any one type of boat. It perhaps should be about sensible (nee sane in some cases) passing off distances, especially when there is plenty of sea room available.

The problems that Piers describes were most acute around the Cowes area which tends to act a bit like spaghetti junction at the best of times with all manner of craft pinching the corner off the run from west to east Solent or vice versa. On the run described (we were killing time waiting to log off the last of the MBM boats back into the Solent) we had a number of boats pass us by at high speed, less than two boat lengths off. Not moaning about the rolling; I've done enough sea miles to know how to keep the tea in my mug, the fridge door latched and the potted plant stowed. Ditto Piers. This point is simply about what was safe and reasonable.

Those of you who know me realise the fact that I have been a big supporter of motorboats and the people who use them. Nothing has changed on that as far as I am concerned. But frankly, those of us who fall in that camp really are asking for trouble if we don't accept the fact that there are those out there potentially doing powered boating a lot of harm with the way they inconsiderately pinch in close to other boats on occasions. There were three very experienced motorboat people onboard our boat on the day in question; we conservatively estimate that we had no less than 20-25 encounters with powered craft that were closer than necessary (and by that I mean they could have easily stood much further off without conflict with other vessels or shallow water). It certainly made us think.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[RayB]

Ditto to what Deleted User said!

"Hopefully that won't be too expensive to fix?"

 

[Piers]

Result?

From the replies to date, it would seem the majority verdict is "I've got a fast boat, you haven't, so just put up with the wash I make'.

Is this so?

Or should I let all this run off my back like duck's water....

Piers du Pré
MBM Cruising Club enthusiast
www.playdeau.com

 

[seajay]

Hi Piers
We always have had sympathy with yachties but then we are X yachties.You need to have been in both camps, like driving a car and being on a motorbike
We all use the sea,Just like a road?
Mike. Christine and Christopher
PS Thanks again for your help on the MBM trip, have a look at the site
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/seajay/

 

[nicho]

Piers,

We have always had motorboats, the last a Sealine S37, which was sold last January with a view to never coming back. As it happens, we lost out to the lure of the sea, and are returning (albeit with a sailing boat - probably Jeanneau 34'). Having considerable motorboating experience, but little in sail boats (well, nothing really!), I spent last week on a Day Skippers course with the Southern Sailing School in a Sadler 34. I can tell you it was very enlightening on number of issues. Firstly with regards to wash, for sure when motor boats passed, even at some distance, their wash eventually hit us, BUT even in light winds, it never once knocked the wind out of our sails. We were not of course racing, so even if it did slow us a little it did not matter, but the motion of a sail boat over wash is far more gentle than that of a planing hull travelling at 7 kts. The worst incident was a Sealine 310 flybridge boat passing us at around 20+ kts, some 100 metres off port beam - the wash was actually not too desperate, but the fact that it was being driven by a young girl of around 15/16 (hard to tell these days) from the flybridge, totally unsupervised was outrageous. In Yarmouth harbour the previous evening we were told by harbour staff to raft against this very boat, and the skipper was distinctly put out about it. Eventually agreed to help, but everyone of his knots fell apart and our boat gently slipped away (lucky we were alert - was it deliberate?). Later that evening, around 11.00 a very tired husband and wife rafted up to us after a long crossing from Dielette in light winds. They then crossed both our boat and said Sealine (in a very quiet manner) to visit friends on another part of the pontoon, when the skipper burst out of the cabin shouting at them to be quiet, and that he had children on board. The rest of the crew on my boat knew that I was a "stinkie", and boy, did I get some stick! The man made a complete fool of himself, and did motorboaters no good at all. Why on earth he went to Yarmouth and got upset when others rafted to him is beyond me. The next morning he did not want to wait 10/15 mins to allow us to finish leaving preparations, and rather than cause further aggravation, we set off not fully prepared. I believe it is this kind of behaviour by a minority of idiots (on both sides) that causes the conflict between power and sail. In the last three years in and around the Solent in our motor cruiser, we only had two sail boats tack unneccessarily in front of us, but it is those I remember. Did I like sailing? - yes I did, it was fantastic, and I cannot wait to get my own boat.

 

[Guest]

Name and shame him!

It seems that this Sealine owner needs his boat added to the "Name and Shame" posting on this forum?

Bernie

 

[oldgit]

Re: Name and shame him!

My boat is not that fast (18 knots) but I can create as much wash as the best ,But I consider it mark of seaman ship to slow down on in order to not create to much disturbance for some people maybe fisherman at anchor or people in smaller craft.
One or two posters here seem to think their boat is some sort of willy extension.
I doubt they will stay boating very long before something else attracts their attentions.

Just lets say the best boat in the known universe starts with the letter P

 

[SloopJohnB]

“I was still olite and said hello as he went past and he didnt even have the manners to say hello back and that includes his ugly wife!!

Be polite but dont ruin your own fun cos they bought a boat that is not right for your boating conditions”

I have no sympathy with wingeing sailors who complain about wash. No doubt many would wish that mobos had not been invented and we could all enjoy the peace and tranquility that can only be known once the bloody engine has been turned off. You cant stop progress and its no more my god given right to sail at 5 knots with a fair wind than it is for you to hit the accelerator and let her rip at 20 knots. We just have to accept change and that we are all different.

I accept that you can’t make a 200metre detour for every sailing boat in your path. If we sail in the Solent then we must expect wash.

What I can’t accept is this crap about sailing boats not being “right for your boating conditions” or in someway “inadequate”. Maybe you were intoxicated by the speed of your own Volvo KAD 43P 290 DP (whatever that may be) when you wrote these ill informed words. May I remind you that these boats that are “inadequate for its needs” have sailed and are capable of sailing round the world with no more than the wind and a couple of pieces of cloth.

Ironically, this thread relates to the Tall ships Parade. Are these boats inadequate also?

I make no criticism of your dream. Please respect mine.

ps unless you spoke to the woman, you are in no position to describe her as ugly. Beauty is far more than skin deep - or is that another lesson that you still have to learn.