In mast retro fit furling system - stiff. What should I expect to find up top?

[stevie69p]

Well, as per the thread title... The new to me boat has a retro fitted in mast furling system fitted, which would appear to be aluminium extrusions that are riveted on to the original mast. On the test sail it was giving problems and the sail had to be unfurled from about the half way point by going forward and manually pulling the sail out by the foot. Furling it back in is a bit of a struggle to, if less so than unfurling it.

Yesterday I decided to drop the main and investigate. Even with the sail off and no load on the system it is too stiff for my liking. I removed the drum at the bottom that the furling line goes round, cleaned and re-greased the bearings top and bottom of that item, but even when the drum was removed, the tubular extrusion that the sail wraps around is still very stiff to rotate.

The halyard swivel runs freely, so I suspect the issue lies up at the top of the mast. Not being familiar with the system and having no user manual for it, can anyone enlighten me as to what sort of set up I should expect to find at the top of the mast? Is it likely to be a job that could be tackled from a bosun's chair, or will the mast need to be lowered?

Thanks in advance for any info...

 

[Tranona]

Difficult to know exactly what the arrangement is, but it will be a caged bearing of some sort. In the absence of any documentation the only way to find out is to go up there and have a look. However dropping the mast is never a wasted task on a newly acquired boat as it gives you the opportunity to check everything aloft in relative comfort.

 

[pvb]

Not being familiar with the system and having no user manual for it, can anyone enlighten me as to what sort of set up I should expect to find at the top of the mast? Is it likely to be a job that could be tackled from a bosun's chair, or will the mast need to be lowered?

If you can tell us the make of the furler, it might help. It's likely that you could simply grease the top bearing from a bosun's chair, but if it needs more serious attention you'll probably need to unstep the mast.

 

[stevie69p]

Thanks chaps. I understand it's difficult to know what the setup is exactly. I can't see any maker's name anywhere so far. The drum is fairly narrow diameter around 50mm where the furling line goes on, with loose bearings fitted top and bottom of the drum, which as mentioned I have removed, cleaned and greased. Bearings seem nice and round, tracks are fine, no pitting etc., so it all points to the top. I'm not great with heights but may just have to bite the bullet and get a big strong person to winch me aloft... eek! At least to see what's going on. Might be able to flush the top bearing and get some PTFE spray into it...?

 

[Richard10002]

Photographs including some close ups may help someone to identify it.

Could it be that the mast isn't straight, and it needs to be.

I had a similar problem with a Selden in mast system and, after various advice from experts, which involved a new mainsail, ( ), we found a screw thing at the bottom had come free, so things weren't connecting properly. Not a very good description, but worth checking, top and bottom, with a manual if you can get one.

 

[pvb]

The drum is fairly narrow diameter around 50mm where the furling line goes on, with loose bearings fitted top and bottom of the drum, which as mentioned I have removed, cleaned and greased.

Is the drum a plain cylinder, or does it have a spiral groove?

 

[CalicoJack]

We found that uphaul tension was crucial. Too much and the sail is a devil to pull out.

 

[pvb]

We found that uphaul tension was crucial. Too much and the sail is a devil to pull out.

But the OP said "Even with the sail off and no load on the system it is too stiff for my liking."

 

[stevie69p]

Is the drum a plain cylinder, or does it have a spiral groove?

Plain drum, black anodised aluminium by the looks of things with a boss at each end to keep the rope in check.
The drum locates on to the luff groove extrusion by sliding it up and then locating 2 allen grub screws, with a final smaller grub screw that holds the end of the furling line in it's hole.
Seems decent quality whatever make it is... I'll try and get some pics if it ever stops raining lol

 

[stevie69p]

We found that uphaul tension was crucial. Too much and the sail is a devil to pull out.

Yes, that was mentioned by the seller during the test sail, but that's definitely not the issue here. It's stiff to turn with the sail off and with the drum and lower bearings removed.

 

[stevie69p]

Photographs including some close ups may help someone to identify it.

Could it be that the mast isn't straight, and it needs to be.

I had a similar problem with a Selden in mast system and, after various advice from experts, which involved a new mainsail, ( ), we found a screw thing at the bottom had come free, so things weren't connecting properly. Not a very good description, but worth checking, top and bottom, with a manual if you can get one.

I don't think it's an issue with the mast integrity, as.....

with the drum and lower bearings removed, the extrusion that takes the sail hangs semi-free with the lower end only loosely located in a guide bush that sits above the drum. So it really should spin freely. I think I need to get an extra long selfie stick for these kind of jobs hehe...

 

[WightMistress]

Coming to this late, but I have an external furling system that was tight. As well as rebuilding the gearbox, I slackened the 'forestay' wire inside the foil by adjusting the height of the gearbox. It is actually on a bottle screw now and after I got the system to work properly I bit the bullet and re rivetted the mounting to the mast.
Perhaps the wire tension is a bit tight? While my foil (unsupported by any enclosure) does bow a tiny bit, it all works well and I don't seem to have lost anything in the way of speed (that said, she is a Fisher 34 - very heavy and comfortable but will still get to hull speed on a beam reach in a F5.)

 

[greeny]

Last time I had problems with an in mast system (not mine) I found a birds nest in the top mechanism. All sorts of stuff in there from twigs to bits of plastic rope. Took a fair bit of effort to get it out while hanging in the harness. That was a Z spar internal in mast system so maybe yours wouldn't accomodate a nest up there.

 

[Vegable]

It sounds to me as though the foil is too tight. On my boat I had the opposite, too slack and very difficult to furl. I do know that the opposite produces the same results.
If you look where the foil meets the drum, there is an aluminium blank sleeve with a single screw through it. Unscrewing this screw allows the sleeve to slide up the foil. (Access is through the oval slots in the side of the mast). Once the sleeve is out of the way grip the foil with an adjustable spanner and turn the reefing drum so that it unscrews the shaft from the foil until you can grab the foil, wiggle it about and it hits the mast internally. Now tighten it up until it stops hitting the mast and then give it a bit more. This should make things easier for you. If it's not this then it's at the top of the mast and I've never explored that area.
Mike
Btw, you have to take the sail completely off again to do this.

Didn't realise that this post originated in September '17 ��